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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:14 pm 
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Location: Scotland or London
Hi,

I’m hoping that the collective knowledge of the forum can help me sort out an issue I’m having with a rear hub and dropouts.

So as the title says I’m having a problem with my rear hub slipping in my rear dropouts when cycling, here are the details

I have no reason to think there's anything wrong with the frame or hubs so I'm a little mystified.

- Frame: 2014 Colnago C59, have had for less than 6 months. Slipping has always occurred but I assumed it was a skewers/hub issue.

- Hub: now a brand new Chris King R45, previously had a Tune Mag 170, had the same issue with both. (for completeness the rim is a 28 hole ambrosia excellite and the spokes were Sapim Super CX Rays with the Tune hub, and now Sapim CX Rays with the Chris King hub)

- Skewers: were originally a pair of carbonsports lightweight skewers. I thought these were the issue as they are very light weight, I changed these to a set of Enve Titanium Skewers.

- Issue often occurs when I’m moving off and accelerating or when going up a hill. It’s noticeable as the rim jams against the brake pad and I can feel the resistance.

- The quick release is as tight as I can close it, and more than I believe should be required.

- I’m 72kg and 6ft

- I’ve cleaned the dropouts to remove any dirt or oil.

- Attached is a picture of the dropout which I’m having a problem with.


Image

Image

Does anyone have any thoughts on what could be the cause or what I can eliminate or try next?

Thanks for your help!


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Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:14 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:18 pm 
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Put a "proper" skewer (Campag or Shimano) in and see if that cures it. Light Ti skewers tend to be too flexible and don't lock down without an excessive amount of force.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:32 pm 
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^^^ FWIW, CK says that too here: http://chrisking.com/tech/tech_hubs

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:35 am 
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+1 on campagnolo or shimaNO skewers. I promise that will fix you issue. Not WW though.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:58 am 
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Yup, add one more to the bet that a "proper" skewer will fix things.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:26 am 
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Sounds like a soft wheel to me. Do other wheels have the same issue? Who built the wheels? Are they dished correctly? How close are the brake blocks set to the rim?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:32 am 
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+1 on using a steel skewer, ideally one with an internal cam. I had the same issue with a Hed Ardennes rear wheel (which doesn't have knurled end caps). A steel skewer, adequately clamped, resolved the slipping issue.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:39 am 
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Yes, re @maggierose's comment post, I'm assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that the OP is saying that when the rim hits the pads, that it's still against the pads when he stops, implying that the wheel has actually moved in the dropouts as opposed to rubbing the brakes due to just a soft wheel or a poor build.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:18 am 
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I had the same issue, rim hitting the pads when riding steep climbs.

I found out the rear cable housing was too short, when riding hard I move a bit the handlebars and with the cable housing too short it brakes.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:34 am 
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Thanks for all the replies.

It's a case of the wheel permanently moving in the dropouts and not the rim
just flexing and hitting the brake pads. So yes it's still against the pads when I stop.

Sounds like the next step is to get a rear Campagnolo skewer and give that a try.

The Enve skewers must work for a lot of people so still curious as to why my setup needs so much extra force...

Thanks again


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:09 am 
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That's the issue with "cheap" skewers (external cam types are far cheaper to make than internal cam.) The variability is massive, just a change to lube (dry/oil/grease) or a little scratching of the bush (and its material) can make a massive difference to how much of your closing force turns into end load.

Campag, shimano and other internal cam skewers just slowly degrade over their lifetime, and are easily refreshed with a blast of oil. As an added bonus, lifetime is long enough that you are unlikely to still have them when they eventually die. I've still got a set of xt's in almost daily use from the late 90s. The shaft is corroded to buggery, the nut looks like it's been through a mincer, the handles been ground down on the road a few times. Still works perfectly. Smooth action, lots of end load. I even bodged a headset press out of it a couple of years ago when I was in a hurry........ My expensive titanium skewers of the same vintage (with a brass bush) lasted a season.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:06 pm 
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I'll probably go for some campag skewers but does anyone know what the Tune internal cam skewers are like? I'm assuming there's some compromise in clamping force etc for the weight saving?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:35 pm 
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Same on my M10. Had Tune skewrs. Changed to FFWD. It is better now.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:23 pm 
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Colnago likes to have those bolt heads right in your clamping area. Those are very hard steel and sit slightly proud so they keep a lightweight or flexible skewer from clamping the hub tightly enough. Again, it's a matter of a stronger skewer. You might conceivably have a bolt that's sitting just high enough to interfere; you'd have to check that yourself. I don't see marks on the head so I'm assuming it's just low enough.

Second thing, and I know it sounds contradictory, is that you have more marking on the inside than I would have expected. King rear hubs in particular have pretty aggressive teeth to dig into the stay end or hangar, but if you have clamped the hub so that it causes any grooving or unevenness in the clamping surface, no hub will hold well. This is a very common problem with track stay ends on carbon and alloy frames, where riders have a big hex track nut and can apply far more pressure than one could ever accomplish with a quick release, but it does happen on road hubs as well. I'd like to see an absolutely even pattern of sharp clamp marks on the inside, but I see instead some wear on the forward lip of the dropout and hardly any on the rearward side. Additionally, you just might put a pair of frame alignment tools on the rear end to make sure that stay end is truly parallel to the other one -- unlikely that it's off but this could explain what is happening as well, plus why it's marking like it is.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:27 pm 
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Like psm had the same prob on my M10 using tune skewers. Nowt wrong with the frame just that tune skewers are a piece of useless sh*te. Undoubtedly a skewer issue.

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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:27 pm 


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