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 Post subject: Re: New Shamal Mille!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:36 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:55 pm
Posts: 108
Location: Honolulu
What is the function of the alu. spokes on the Shamal, and why don't Bora and Hyperon have the same?


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 Post subject: Re: New Shamal Mille!
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:36 am 


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 Post subject: Re: New Shamal Mille!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:11 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:09 am
Posts: 346
Calnago wrote:
Sheesh... I hope for everyone's sake that @graeme_f_k doesn't just throw up his arms and quit contributing.

I'm sorry I questioned a manufacturers claims and matched it with data I could find.
I'm also sorry that I do not recognize claims as factual data.

Of course I'm not sorry at all. I certainly don't want to scare away Graeme, but the fanboyish "Best post ever! Real data is great" when there's actually zero data is much more detrimental than critical thinking.

And I assume Graeme is a big guy and realizes that so far he only has put down claims without any supporting data. If that's all he can do, no problem (proprietary data and it's likely unverifiable by us anyway), but he should say so. "Guys, I can't show you the numbers, but believe us. The experience shows that we know our stuff". No outlandish claims needed.


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 Post subject: Re: New Shamal Mille!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:11 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:33 pm
Posts: 241
bluesea wrote:
What is the function of the alu. spokes on the Shamal, and why don't Bora and Hyperon have the same?



good question. if the alu spokes were an "advantage", why do boras have steel spokes?


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 Post subject: Re: New Shamal Mille!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:45 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:07 pm
Posts: 985
Location: Slovenia---that forest land
that big holes in carbon rim wont be good

Alu spokes - less aero, more strech and tension is dropped, headache when try to true those nipples and spokes

Best spokes are cx rays, dt aerolite - i see fat low number aero spokes (i dont know if flat aero spoke is more aero than round spoke) only for marketing

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 Post subject: Re: New Shamal Mille!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:57 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:36 am
Posts: 1189
Location: UK
graeme_f_k wrote:
5 8 5 wrote:
Campag claim it's not just a surface treatment a la Mavic Exalith and they'll stay black.


Not quite true.

It *is* a surface treatment *but* the benefit of hardening influences a significant depth of material on the brake tracks below the black surface coating, which is itself also extremely hard - however, road debris such as sand or small pieces of grit / stone trapped in a brake block long-term will score through the black finish.

The pro-teams have, as ever, beaten them to within an inch of their lives in racing and training and not seen any significant degradation in the braking surfaces other than that caused by the aforementioned small bit of grit etc.

We strongly recommend that brake blocks are cleaned & inspected regularly in any case - to maintain the finish on Shamal Mille / Racing Zero Nite this will also be necessary.

HTH
Graeme
Velotech Cycling Ltd


@Graeme, I should have been clearer. What I meant was that I thought it was supposed to be a deeper, more durable surface treatment compared to exalith.
I was going off the linked article
cyclingnews wrote:
The new Mille braking surface isn't anodized, but is created with a penetrating chemical treatment. Campagnolo claims the brake track will always remain black and this surface treatment will not wear away. There are some parallels with Mavic's Exalith alloy brake track.

From what you're saying, the finish isn't quite as durable as the article is claiming. Again, it'll be interesting to see real-world WW usage.


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 Post subject: Re: New Shamal Mille!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:38 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:09 pm
Posts: 1062
Location: Aix en Provence
Franklin wrote:
LionelB; I never said differently. But do you actually belief your wheel has more reactivity (17%), so you are faster from the start line? ;) Do you feel more torsional stiffness over traditional wheels which result in more power? Or is it just something that works as good as any other good wheel? ;)

it actually works better than other wheels I had which includes many handbuilts, Enve, Reynolds, as well as mavics etc..


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 Post subject: Re: New Shamal Mille!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:58 am
Posts: 832
Location: 604
Not switching brake pads is awesome!!


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 Post subject: New Shamal Mille!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:50 pm
Posts: 229
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
Seems awesome.
But I'm not really sure about the durability of the coating/treatment/whatever. There was a thread a few months back about Exalith coatings being worn away and silver patches on the brake tracks. The people in that thread pointed out that riding in rain aggravated the issue, probably due to dirt and sand finding its way on the wheel and brake tracks.
I'm not meaning to say this technology is the same as Exalith or it will degrade the same way Exalith did, but still, it's a treatment applied from the surface and can only go so deep.
[/cynic]


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 Post subject: Re: New Shamal Mille!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:12 pm
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efeballi wrote:
Seems awesome.
But I'm not really sure about the durability of the coating/treatment/whatever. There was a thread a few months back about Exalith coatings being worn away and silver patches on the brake tracks. The people in that thread pointed out that riding in rain aggravated the issue, probably due to dirt and sand finding its way on the wheel and brake tracks.
I'm not meaning to say this technology is the same as Exalith or it will degrade the same way Exalith did, but still, it's a treatment applied from the surface and can only go so deep.
[/cynic]


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I'm also not sure, but it would be great if it did work. I was searching around and it seems like this company is the one that fits the description for this tech: Keronite (go to it's dot com)

There is a page - What-is-Plasma-Electrolytic-Oxidation? And some other interesting stuff taken from a PDF.

* Enhanced braking performance and extended rim life
* 66% lighter sprockets using Keronite-treated aluminium in place of steel
* 10g shaved off Keronite-treated aluminium wheel rims
* Reduced micro-cracking around spoke eyelets to double component life
* 20g off die-cast magnesium forks with reduced wear and corrosion
* Ideal base for seamlessly bonding frame halves of innovative new cycle
* 1380g magnesium rims now wear and corrosion resistant with strong paint adhesion
* Magnesium suspension rocker link now has superior corrosion protection
* Proven as an excellent carbon to aluminium or magnesium pre-treatment

Today I have a good deal on some Shamal Ultras, but the new Shamal Mille just might be worth waiting a couple of months for.

The only reason I'm in this situation, is that my Racing Zeros are not as laterally stiff as I would like. They rub the breaks more than other cheap wheels that I have. They are nice wheels and have taken hits from unseen pot holes. My Dura Ace C35s only wish they could be as strong. So, I hoped perhaps it's just my wheels and all the others are good.

I might just get them anyway and test that lateral stiffness. If they aren't as good or better than my Racing Zeros, I'll just send them back.


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 Post subject: Re: New Shamal Mille!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:34 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Posts: 3367
Location: Natovi Landing
Anyone (i.e. Graeme) know if Fulcrum tubular range will mirror Campagnolo branded range as usual in 2015 - i.e. will F50 and F35 go wide?

Mille look very cool but sadly the alu spokes kill them from an aero and comfort pov, so they are perhaps just posing wheels for the under-informed.


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 Post subject: Re: New Shamal Mille!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:51 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:57 pm
Posts: 224
Location: West Yorkshire UK.
Really interesting that you can just swap from alloy to carbon rims??!!

Does this mean that the alloy rims will never wear out? When you look at brake pads in 'normal' alloy rims they have many shards of alloy in them which would wreck a carbon surface. It would appear that this is not the case with the new Mille, in which case how will they wear out?? Must be some very clever metal!!

Lig.

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 Post subject: Re: New Shamal Mille!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:11 pm 
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I don't think they're implying that you can just swap wheels without making sure the pads are free of shards, etc. Just that they will work on both, assuming there are no embedded shards. Pick them out first.

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 Post subject: Re: New Shamal Mille!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:36 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:08 am
Posts: 70
Location: The Washingtons: DC and the state
Or switch out pads. It takes all of about a few minutes to change the easily replaceable Campy pads. Far less time than the trips I'd have to pick up at work to replace a set of Hyperons or Boras. :beerchug:

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 Post subject: Re: New Shamal Mille!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:03 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Posts: 3367
Location: Natovi Landing
Calnago wrote:
I don't think they're implying that you can just swap wheels without making sure the pads are free of shards, etc. Just that they will work on both, assuming there are no embedded shards. Pick them out first.


I think you're right - and they are therefore resorting to marketing guff. The whole point about seperate pads is not that pad compounds can't cover both alu and carbon adequately (many pads can), but that alu swarf can destroy carbon.

So no benefit then.


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 Post subject: Re: New Shamal Mille!
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:03 am 


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 Post subject: Re: New Shamal Mille!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:54 pm 
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Posts: 224
Location: West Yorkshire UK.
Hi Chaps,

Sorry but i beg to differ....

This is from the Campag blurb....

'While many will choose to run the Shamal Mille as their go-to race wheels in addition to their training wheels, many athletes will appreciate the fact that they will no longer need to swap out brake pads when changing from their aluminum wheels to their Campagnolo Bora or Hyperion race day wheels.'

To me that says they are confident that there will be no shards??!! I am surprised they say this really?!

http://www.campagnolo.com/DE/de/Produkt ... re_control

Lig.

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