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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:21 pm 
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to me a german company is one that builds its own product, such as a miele. If they are going to outsource to asia and q.c in germany like say canyon, then I don't see what's so german about it

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:38 pm 
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Location: Los Feliz, Los Angeles, California
Oh god, really? :roll:

Possibly interesting, yet terribly flawed logic, please let me follow along...

Campagnolo is Romanian.
Specialized is Chinese (or Taiwanese)
Cervelo is Chinese with a Californian step-child.
Trek is mostly Chinese as well, but occasionally claim Wisconsin heritage.
Cannondale is an expat, right?
Rose is Chinese.
Time is Slovak.
Look used to be Algerian, they may be Chinese or French now.
Pinarello is Chinese or Taiwanese.
and so forth?

Are you saying a BMW isn't German? Or maybe it's only German depending on where you purchase it? It could be American.
And Volvo, they're not Swedish? But they're owned by a Chinese company, yet my car clearly made in Gothenberg, Sweden, and one of my first Volvos came from Flanders.

<sarcasm>
IKEA, damnit, why do you have to be so international!?! I thought you provided Scandinavian designs to the masses? Are you telling me all this time that cute table with a cute Nordic name, with all its accents, does not represent the cultural design of the country in which it was produced?! LIES! LIES! LIES!!
</scarcasm>
:roll:

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Last edited by prendrefeu on Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:38 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:39 pm 
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fromtrektocolnago wrote:
to me a german company is one that builds its own product, such as a miele. If they are going to outsource to asia and q.c in germany like say canyon, then I don't see what's so german about it


Miele conducts production operations in 13 plants at a total of twelve locations, the majority of which are in Germany. In addition, the company maintains production locations in Austria, Romania, the Czech Republic and China.

Miele also doesn't make all products themselves.
eg Their fridges are made by Liebherr.

Bet that lots of components /electronic parts are also coming from abroad.

:wink:


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:00 pm 
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kulivontot wrote:
I think the typical characterization is that german bike companies (ax.lightness, tune, srm, Canyon, etc) are too busy making really nice precision stuff that only like a 1000 people worldwide would want to buy and price accordingly. For whatever reason they don't have the desire or capability to build something high quality, but manufactured in massive quantity at prices that are competitive with the big three.


Umm, why on earth would you put Canyon in that characterization?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:05 pm 
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prendrefeu wrote:
Look used to be Algerian, they may be Chinese or French now.
Look was never Algerian, but did (does?) own and operate a frame and fork factory in Tunisia.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:36 pm 
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If I wanted a French bike it would be Time not Look, strictly based on where the work is done.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:55 pm 
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...But by your logic they aren't French bikes.

:popcorn:



(HammerTime2 - good catch, my mistake!)

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Last edited by prendrefeu on Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:06 pm 
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So many threads get so pedantic like this.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:22 am 
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kgt wrote:
Another example:
There is Rolex. Works and looks fine, keeps a high resale value. For many people, the ultimate watch.
But there is also Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Girard Perregaux, Vacheron Constantin... For the true connoiseur these are superior.


Watches are one of the examples I use when people say "I can't believe someone would spend that much money on a bike!" Hey, at least a £10k bike is better than a £1k bike, you can feel the difference and you can ride it and use it. Whereas lots of people can and do spend £10k (or far more) on a Swiss watch that is significantly worse at telling the time than a £10 Casio and all it does is sit on your wrist. Crazy world :P


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:41 am 
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Watches are jewelry. Wearing a Rolex is also an expression of wealth and success. It has very little to do with actually telling time.

This is the reason Rolexes have skyrocketed in price. The higher the price, the more exclusive the product is and the more people desire it. A submariner should cost $2,000 but it costs $10,000.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:12 am 
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kgt wrote:
fromtrektocolnago wrote:
kgt wrote:
+1
Another example:
There is Rolex. Works and looks fine, keeps a high resale value. For many people, the ultimate watch.
But there is also Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Girard Perregaux, Vacheron Constantin... For the true connoiseur these are superior.


I like Swiss Watches. Have a Breitling from 2005, but there are many watch aficionados who claim the Gran Seiko is at least equal to anything that the Swiss put out. They certainly price the watch that way. There are some excellent top end swiss watches, but the Japanese compete here quite well. Part of the allure of a swiss watch is pure marketing.


Breitling is not really at the top of swiss watchmaking. And Grand Seiko is cool but noone will claim that is anything special in comparison to what the swiss manufactures can make. Not even close.


Not sure I agree with that. For years just about all watch makers used some variation of the valjoux movement. These days many do not, but regarless of whether you purchase an Omega, Breitling, IWC, Rolex you're getting a top watch. Basically its a decision of what looks good to you.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:17 am 
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Omega, Breitling, IWC, Rolex are very good watches, not at the top. True haute horlogerie ('manufactures' that make everything in house including rare complications etc.) is something else.

More here:
https://www.hautehorlogerie.org/en/

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 6:15 am 
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The question no one has asked or answered- why should there be?

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