Tune MAG 170 Flange Broken

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Razor
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Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:23 pm

by Razor

peruffo wrote:I'm surprised that a broken Tune flange is news to you - in the shop where I used to work, there is box full og broken Tune hubs, almost all have this failure. There is another box full of broken PMP and FRM hubs. Actually Tune, PMP and FRM work quite well for their weight, just don't expect years and years of service, especially if you can produce tons of watts pedalling!

The broken hubs can serve as donors for bearings and axles, the former are sometimes the original one Tune put in, so they outlast the flanges!


I am sure it is no surprise to you if you worked in a shop and saw all of those Tune hubs broken, but it was a surprise to me because I've never heard of one breaking nor experienced one (nor any other hub flange) breaking before. My hub is still under warranty so I am sure FB will do something to remedy the problem with the creaking noise whether is replacing the hub or a fix.

peruffo
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by peruffo

I remember reading here that FB said this was the first flange problem in 500 hubs sold. This is hard to imagine this being true, unless they have only been selling them for the last 6 months or so...

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Oswald
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by Oswald

Maybe that means that 1 breaks in every 500 sold? :mrgreen:

peruffo
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by peruffo

If you sell 500 hubs in a short time, you won't have any such problems for a while, later you will have more and more... At least you can find out when a Tune hub was manufactured, in case you want to make statistical info, hubs from the Far East often lack this!

Razor
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by Razor

Here is the thing; the WW member who contacted me said that Tune (according to him) doesn't use serial numbers. Now when I told FB that this WW member said that he has seen the same broken flanges on the Mag 170, FB told me to tell my "friend" that if he has a problem with his hub that he can send it to FB and they would take care of it. Why would FB do that for someone who did not buy the hub from them unless they were aware of the issue? It kinda came across to me as a PR move for Tune (not FB), like Tune was saying to FB..."if you get some returns for this issue, just replace them and we'll do a, b, c for your troubles.." I'm just speculating.

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madcow
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by madcow

Razor wrote:... I'm just speculating.


No need to speculate, we're happy to address any questions that we can answer.

Correct Tune does not use serial numbers on their hubs, so tracking them can be difficult. Correct there have been some flange failures, I think we've now seen 3 cracked flanges in a little more than 2 years. Of course in that time we've also seen cracked flanges from Chris King, DT, Extralite, Alchemy, and even Shimano. It's not a particularly rare failure to see, but given the number of wheels out there the failure rate of any of these is extremely low.

As for the 170 hub, it is a dramatic improvement over the 180, which in my opinion was a pretty problematic hub (tons of creaking issues). We've only seen a handful of cases where the 170 creaks, and in almost everyone the problem is fixed by cleaning and lubing. The 170 definitely needs more attention than some of the heavier more mainstream hubs. We typically recommend that the 170 be cleaned and re-lubed twice a year (this is about a 5 minute job that doesn't require any special tools.) I'm never going to say the Tune hub is the most durable or bombproof, because obviously as you make things lighter you inherently have to compromise in other ways. What I will say is that of the lightweight hubs I do think it's my top choice. It's pretty ideal for the rider who is chasing weight savings but is willing to compromise a bit for weight savings. If reliability is the most important aspect of a hub for a rider then no it's not a top choice in those cases DT, King and WI are probably the way to go. Of course this compromise of weight vs durability doesn't apply to just hubs.

If the WW poster that contacted you had a problem with his hub, yes we'd take care of it. Not as a favor to Tune, but simply because that's what we do. We take care of warranty issues for just about any company in the industry with whom we have a good relationship. While I realize not all shops will handle the warranty on something they did not sell we do our best to take care of everyone that we can and we regularly honor warranty on items that we didn't sell. It is in a way a "PR move" maybe we earn a new customer by taking care of one who did not shop with us originally, maybe that customer tells his friends about his experience or maybe that customer never returns, but still continues to ride his bike. More bikes being ridden is good for all of us in the industry whether or not that customer is our customer or not. We are a business and do want to make a profit, but we feel the best way to do that is to take very good care of all our customers and potential future customers, and to do it in an open and honest way.

I'm still not sure from reading your posts if you're unhappy with the way we've handled things for you, but if so please let us know so we can do something to address it.

Razor
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by Razor

Thanks for chiming in Madcow. I will say that I am happy with the way FB has taken care of my hub issues, that goes without saying. I think you've clearly stated why FB has taken care of hubs that you did not sell, that also is commendable. My reason for going with Tune had more to do with the flange spacing so that I could have a stiffer wheel. They provide that aspect and they are smooth, but the trade off (for me) has been frequent failures and downtime.

Where my frustration comes in is that (aside from the 2 separate hub issues i've had) is that the recent creaking of the 170 (4 month old hub) AFTER my mechanic did as FB suggested and re-lubed the hub. I don't ride these hubs in the rain. So (at least in my case), that fix is not working. I don't mind re-lubing them 2x a year if needed, it is just weird to me that the reason that is required is to avoid creaking unlike other hubs that may get a little rough spinning but not creak. I guess Tune is unique (or maybe not) in that aspect and requires more maintenance.

I've been too busy to send my wheel back but will try to in the next few days. It is really frustrating to realize that (I'm looking at this from a purchasing perspective) that the cost of shipping multiple hubs back for service has added to the original purchase price making the hubs more expensive than the original outlay of cash. Lesson learned.

Denavelo
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by Denavelo

I'm never going to say the Tune hub is the most durable or bombproof, because obviously as you make things lighter you inherently have to compromise in other ways. What I will say is that of the lightweight hubs I do think it's my top choice. It's pretty ideal for the rider who is chasing weight savings but is willing to compromise a bit for weight savings. If reliability is the most important aspect of a hub for a rider then no it's not a top choice in those cases DT, King and WI are probably the way to go. Of course this compromise of weight vs durability doesn't apply to just hubs.

This is my motto when traveling down the Weight weenie rabbit hole.. All should take note.

You want weight savings, then you jump in the unreliability pool. It goes with the territory. When it all boils down too it, you're only saving a few grams here and there versus CKR45 Ceramics and WIT11, but you stated you wanted the wider flange for stiffness. Glad FWB took care of you. I wish they expanded and opened an LA store.

I only send my wheels to FWB for build and they always ride so good!

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Razor
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by Razor

UPDATE:

I sent the wheel back to FWB, they rode the wheel and did find that it was indeed creaking. They said they put a drop of oil between the spoke crossings and into each nipple, apparently that eliminated the creaking noise. We'll see, I'll get the wheel back and see how it performs. I hope that is all it is, I'm a little skeptical as the sound it was making was exactly like the infamous Mag 180 that I had before. Just a little history, FWB sold me the hub and built the wheel.

He did say that there were too many preload shims with the wheel so they got rid of them. I was told that "there is very slight play in the axle but this needs to be there as once the hub is clamped with a skewer the play goes away, this is what prevents the bearings from being preloaded"... Do any of you Mag 170 owners have play in your hub off the bike?

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TwiggyTN
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by TwiggyTN

You need a have a slight amount of play to keep the bearings free spinning when clamped in the dropouts. FWB knows what their doing mate.

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Razor
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by Razor

Even with all of the issues I've had with the 180 and 170 hubs, FWB customer service was excellent and they took care of the problems pretty fast. Tune's assembly leaves something to be desired though, my 2nd Mag 180 had a washer that was missing and now this one had too many washers :noidea:

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Kermithimself
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by Kermithimself

I had the same issue with a set of Mag170 hubs. Thought it was a broken spoke, but turned out to be a chunk of the flange that was broken. Had the wheel rebuilt with a new hub at no extra cost, but thinking about selling the wheelset.
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Razor
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by Razor

Kermithimself wrote:I had the same issue with a set of Mag170 hubs. Thought it was a broken spoke, but turned out to be a chunk of the flange that was broken. Had the wheel rebuilt with a new hub at no extra cost, but thinking about selling the wheelset.


When did you buy the hub? was your new wheel rebuilt with another Mag 170?

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Kermithimself
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by Kermithimself

Bought the hub summer 2013 - broke around October 2014 - so a bit more than a year after, though it wasn't my primary set of wheels. Yes, the new wheel was rebuilt with another Mag170.
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Frankie - B
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by Frankie - B

Razor; To add to the discussion, FWB states that the hub (i assume the free hub) needs to be lubed 2x per year. have you asked what lube they recommend as from a professional background I can say that there are 1000s of different types of lube. The lube your mechanic had used might have been to viscous or to fluid. Viscous, think the old syn lube from pedros, and for the other end of the spectrum, fluid, think WD40 dry lube. The latter has nothing to do with bicycles and esp chains if you ask me.
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