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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:00 am 
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Posts: 353
justkeepedaling wrote:
Rides better than a Domane. And a subjective statement at that? Ok...

I've ridden into a 30 kph headwind before, not fun.

If you want to give up 15-20 watts, go right ahead.

I already have an aero frame and wheels (and clothing that fits, why would you buy anything that flaps around?)


I'd like to get a clarification as to how Specialized presented aero data here https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=win+tunnel, that's all. Riding in 30 km/h headwind is dangerous. This is not real-world scenario. If their wind tunnel target 20-50 km/h headwind them I'm out! According to Cervelo, removing 1 water bottle is ~ 10 watts.
FYI - My jersey is race-fit, I don't ride anything that flaps. I was just pointing out that tighter jersey will yield more gains that anything else.

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Racing is a three-dimensional high-speed chess game, involving hundreds of pieces on the board.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:17 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:06 am
Posts: 960
Location: Perth, Western Australia
I have a Madone with aero bars and I don't find it any faster than my Parlee Z5 in real world conditions.

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Parlee Z5 XL (6055g/13.32lbs) Trek Madone 5.9 (7052-7500g)Jonesman Columbus Spirit (8680g)
Chase your dreams - it's only impossible until it's done


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:17 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:32 pm
Posts: 362
mpulsiv wrote:
justkeepedaling wrote:
Rides better than a Domane. And a subjective statement at that? Ok...

I've ridden into a 30 kph headwind before, not fun.

If you want to give up 15-20 watts, go right ahead.

I already have an aero frame and wheels (and clothing that fits, why would you buy anything that flaps around?)


I'd like to get a clarification as to how Specialized presented aero data here https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=win+tunnel, that's all. Riding in 30 km/h headwind is dangerous. This is not real-world scenario. If their wind tunnel target 20-50 km/h headwind them I'm out! According to Cervelo, removing 1 water bottle is ~ 10 watts.
FYI - My jersey is race-fit, I don't ride anything that flaps. I was just pointing out that tighter jersey will yield more gains that anything else.


I'm not sure you understand how the wind tunnel works. The wind speed that they report is the sum of the rider's speed vector and the wind's speed vector. Basically the wind speed relative to the rider. If they quote a wind speed of 50 kph, any of the following is possible:
  • Riding 50 kph in still air
  • Riding 30 kph with a 20 kph straight on headwind
  • Riding 60 kph with a 10 kph straight on tailwind

You get the idea.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:04 pm 
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Location: San Francisco, CA
The measurements have greater sensitivity at relatively higher relative wind speeds, and you can interpolate the force to lower speed fairly reliably by assuming wind resistance proportional to the square of the relative wind at a given yaw. Also the tunnels can produce a smooth air flow better at relatively higher wind speeds (within this range). This is why they typically don't waste time measuring at different wind speeds: they don't need to. Just multiply by the square of the ratio of speeds to get force, then additionally by the ratio of bike speeds (taking the component of force at 0-yaw) to get power.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:18 pm 
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Posts: 147
mpulsiv wrote:
Riding in 30 km/h headwind is dangerous.


Where do you live? 30 km/h is pretty common around where I live


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:33 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:14 am
Posts: 1318
Location: by Crystal Springs (Sawyer Creek Trail)
It's very common where I live too. Even worse when it's from the side


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:55 pm 
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justkeepedaling wrote:

I'm not sure you understand how the wind tunnel works. The wind speed that they report is the sum of the rider's speed vector and the wind's speed vector. Basically the wind speed relative to the rider. If they quote a wind speed of 50 kph, any of the following is possible:
  • Riding 50 kph in still air
  • Riding 30 kph with a 20 kph straight on headwind
  • Riding 60 kph with a 10 kph straight on tailwind

You get the idea.


Yes, I get the idea but riding in a 30km/h is not a real world scenario. Do you face this high wind every time you train or race? Also, wind tunnel was based on 40km distance at steady wind on a flat terrain. How many of you can ride 40km with a steady wind on flat terrain (if exist)? For me, 5km is the longest I can ride before approaching ascent/descent.

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Racing is a three-dimensional high-speed chess game, involving hundreds of pieces on the board.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:34 pm
Posts: 608
Are the SLR Emonda's finished better than the SL's? I saw an SL at the Toronto Trek Store and while it looked quite nice - the finish did not seem appropriate for a $4,800 (Cdn) SLR Frame.

Are all the Graphics paint or Stickers?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:45 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:14 am
Posts: 1318
Location: by Crystal Springs (Sawyer Creek Trail)
mpulsiv wrote:
justkeepedaling wrote:

I'm not sure you understand how the wind tunnel works. The wind speed that they report is the sum of the rider's speed vector and the wind's speed vector. Basically the wind speed relative to the rider. If they quote a wind speed of 50 kph, any of the following is possible:
  • Riding 50 kph in still air
  • Riding 30 kph with a 20 kph straight on headwind
  • Riding 60 kph with a 10 kph straight on tailwind

You get the idea.


Yes, I get the idea but riding in a 30km/h is not a real world scenario. Do you face this high wind every time you train or race? Also, wind tunnel was based on 40km distance at steady wind on a flat terrain. How many of you can ride 40km with a steady wind on flat terrain (if exist)? For me, 5km is the longest I can ride before approaching ascent/descent.


I'm not sure you truly understand what we're talking about. I have faced 30 kph wind for over an hour at a time on flat terrain. The 40 km figure that they are giving is because it is the typical distance for a Olympic distance Triathlon bike leg. The amount of time saved suggests that you can perhaps place higher in the Triathlon if you got this new great aero bike.

The 50 kph is scaleable to lower speeds. Even when taking the wind velocity vector into account. 40 kph with 10 kph headwind is a very reasonable approximation of triathletes. They can go all the way to averaging 48 kph on the course.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:07 pm
Posts: 1052
Location: The Lone Star State
morrisond wrote:
Are all the Graphics paint or Stickers?


It depends on the model. SL's are most likely decals, placed over the paint, under the clear coat. It isn't until you get into the high-end, custom-painted Project 1 paint jobs that you get stenciled (painted) logos. I think at this point, only the Vapor Coat paint jobs have stenciled logos, but that may also extend to some other fancy paint jobs, as well.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:07 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:34 pm
Posts: 608
The stencilled logos are stickers or paint?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:07 pm
Posts: 1052
Location: The Lone Star State
Paint.

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Trek Crockett, Madone, Superfly, SpeedConcept & Cobia


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:39 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:34 pm
Posts: 608
Thanks - does anyone know a good retailer in the States or Europe who has good pricing on the frames only?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:13 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:35 pm
Posts: 42
morrisond wrote:
Thanks - does anyone know a good retailer in the States or Europe who has good pricing on the frames only?

Are you trying to mail order for "best" pricing?

AKAIK, "good" dealers can't ship bikes or frames for the current model year (per Trek rules). You are supposed to get the bike in person from the shop.

I believe it is possible for them to ship closeout models.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:53 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:34 pm
Posts: 608
Not necessarily best pricing - but fair pricing - Canadian retailers tend not to discount much at all. I
Fully capable and have all the tools to build it myself - I see it as just another part like a stem. I don't require the service of a shop.

Sometimes things sell much cheaper in Europe or the states - I was trying to find pricing outside of Canada to see how it compared - in the end if I can get similar pricing in Canada I'll buy it here - within a few hundred dollars.


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