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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 1:06 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:53 am
Posts: 345
I think all the light weight manufactures are at the point of to get the bike lighter it's all in the layup and it's just way too much labor to mass produce....

(or a different way to look at it is that they have removed all the excesses carbon they can)

I think we are kinda at the end of the road, waiting on new materials ... they might start using more powerlux resin but it's 7 times as much as normal resin and I would bet that there are trade offs using it : )

C


PS Is the SLR frame lighter with the Vapor paint?


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Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 1:06 am 


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:39 pm 
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$3000 for an aero frame is if you throw away your old one. If you're deciding between two bikes of the same cost, the dollar cost of aero is zero. That's what I'm talking about here: Madone or Emonda? The Emonda simply looks slow -- like the last generation of Gary Fisher branded frames. Yes -- I recognize other things matter more, just like whether I weigh 57 kg or 58 kg matters a hell of a lot more than what grade carbon is used on my bike frame.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:02 pm 
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Is the 690g SLR weight with or without vapor paint? I seem to remember reading that it was for a 56cm painted frame, but which paint, normal or vapor?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 7:26 pm 
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djconnel wrote:
If you're deciding between two bikes of the same cost, the dollar cost of aero is zero. That's what I'm talking about here: Madone or Emonda?


That "aero" Madone didn't test test very aero compared to "real" aero bikes. If I recall correctly it was about equal to a Felt F series in aero drag.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 7:31 pm 
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"Weights are based off current mass production competitor 56cm painted frame or bike at time of publication. We weighed all bikes and frames on the same UWE HS-15k hanging scale and published either the competitor’s claimed weight or the competitor’s weighed weight, whichever was lightest."

Image

Nice axis.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:16 pm 
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djconnel wrote:
$3000 for an aero frame is if you throw away your old one. If you're deciding between two bikes of the same cost, the dollar cost of aero is zero. That's what I'm talking about here: Madone or Emonda? The Emonda simply looks slow -- like the last generation of Gary Fisher branded frames. Yes -- I recognize other things matter more, just like whether I weigh 57 kg or 58 kg matters a hell of a lot more than what grade carbon is used on my bike frame.


The Madone isn't all that aero and a rider's fit on the bike will determine more than anything. Just marketing hyperbole to a point. If the Madone was so aero you'd see Fabian on it a lot more, but you don't.

Bikes look as fast as their riders.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:13 pm 
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Madone tests remarkably well.

For example:

Image
Image
Image
Image

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Last edited by djconnel on Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:59 pm 
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KWalker wrote:
The Madone isn't all that aero and a rider's fit on the bike will determine more than anything. Just marketing hyperbole to a point. If the Madone was so aero you'd see Fabian on it a lot more, but you don't.


I think you underestimate how much ride feel matters to a lot of pro-riders. Not many people would dispute the S5s aero credentials but last year Garmin's riders had almost completely abandoned it (in long stage races) in favour of the R5.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:00 am 
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totally agree with wingguy

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:31 am 
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True, when you spend so much time on it, if it rides like shit it doesn't really matter how aero it is. They ain't riding it.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:37 am 
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Yup.......the S5 rides like shit......yup.......

Really?????

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:54 am 
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djconnel wrote:
"Weights are based off current mass production competitor 56cm painted frame or bike at time of publication. We weighed all bikes and frames on the same UWE HS-15k hanging scale and published either the competitor’s claimed weight or the competitor’s weighed weight, whichever was lightest."

Huh? Why wouldn't they publish the actual weight if they weighed it?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:53 pm 
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That's a really good question. And there's only two competitor bikes in the chart -- they could have been more specific. One assumes they weighed their own bike.... :)
BTW, I just added another Tarmac wind drag reference (from Cervelo R5 white paper) to my previous post.
A friend has an S5 and likes it. However, the Garmin team seems to never use it, preferring the S3, so the S5 will become more like the S3 next year.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:23 pm 
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Garmin's an odd team, in that they buy much of their equipment, rather than accept it with strings attached, like all of the other ProTour teams. I wouldn't necessarily equate their equipment choices as preferences before considering other factors (equipment availability, etc.). Before the mass roll-out of DA9000 last year (of which, they were the last squad to get it), Garmin team members were frequently photographed using Ultegra 6700 parts, because the team couldn't find enough DA components on the market.

That being said, for the poster who commented about Fabian's choice to NOT use a Madone, I remind you that Fabian was brought in to develop the Domane, and he ONLY races a Domane (unless he's riding a TT, in which case, he rides his Speed Concept). Domane is his signature bike, and I doubt you'll catch him riding anything else (possibly for the rest of his career).

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:57 pm 
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Irrelevant. They may buy Shimano, but Cervelo is a full bike sponsor just like every other team has.

And frankly, equipment that comes without strings attached would make it more likely to be a result of rider preference, not less.


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Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:57 pm 


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