HOT: Active* forum members generally gain 5% discount at starbike.com store!
Weight Weenies
* FAQ    * Search    * Trending Topics
* Login   * Register
HOME Listings Articles FAQ Contact About




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Placing technique
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 10:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:48 pm
Posts: 755
Location: Denmark
I have a tendency to place really badly in the field when we're riding. I can start up front with the top 10, and then after a couple of km's see my self dangling at the back. I don't lack power, I just have a hard time staying up in front. It's a thing I really would like to improve, and in my next race I'll have all my focus on placing correctly. I hope to gain a lot of experience by having this as my primary assignment for the race, but do any of you guys have any good pointers on how to keep staying in the front of the race?

What happens for me is usually that I place in the middle of the bunch, get captured behind other riders as the right or left side attacks, which puts me further back in the peloton.

_________________
-----------------------------
I like Spanish bikes and cars. Riding an Orbea Orca and a Seat Ibiza.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Placing technique
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 11:45 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:08 am
Posts: 7504
Location: Geeeelong! / YURP
Best piece of advice I was given (as I also struggle with this) is

"see a hole (in the bunch) fill it!"

repeat to yourself the whole race - of course being mindful of where the wind is coming from.


Also, getting yourself back to the front often enough will have others think "shoot, this guy really means business and wants to where the action is at" - which leads to making it easier to hold position. There are plenty of guys in a race who have no intention of seeing the front of the bunch, so having them know you want to be at the front normally lends to them not making life hard for you to move back up.

_________________
http://www.nicksquillari.com.au


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Placing technique
Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 11:45 am 


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Placing technique
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 12:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:58 am
Posts: 253
I've always found that when the bunch is slowing is the right time to improve position - any time you can move forward within the bunch without working hard to do it is fine by me. like nick says, it makes it look like you're pushing to ride at the front and get in the action, but it's really just about giving yourself the position make better decisions and make less efforts.

interested to hear what everyone else has to say on the matter.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Placing technique
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 12:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Posts: 1871
If you aren't moving up, you are moving down.........

And do it smart, brake later, move up on the downwind side, follow the big guys (and the fast guys), fight for the good wheels (and let the bad wheels go, who wants to be stuck behind someone who is going backwards!)
Fill space (to make it harder for people to come past you in the bunch)
Make sure you look like one of the good guys, people won't want to come past you (see point about following good wheels)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Placing technique
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 2:49 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:08 am
Posts: 7504
Location: Geeeelong! / YURP
mentok wrote:
any time you can move forward within the bunch without working hard to do it is fine by me.

Is precisely what it's all about.

Always be aware of someone moving up past you, as normally you can hitch a ride behind them. In Australia that's normally a battle for the wheel in itself, but in Europe I've found they're a lot more (for want of a better term) 'polite' and will let you in.

There will also always be times where the wind changes and the bunch won't be 'in the gutter'. The temptation is to take a moment and get your breath, but that's when you pounce and move up. Even if it's not to the front, still better to be mid-bunch if the guys at the front decide to go full gas. In the longer term, you'll save more energy that way (and hold good position).

_________________
http://www.nicksquillari.com.au


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Placing technique
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 2:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:04 pm
Posts: 55
Are you losing position because of fitness or some other reason? If it isn't fitness, the key is to often to pick a position among people who damn well intend to be up front and be a part of that cadre. There is often a "cool kids" section of the peloton. Find it. If the road is sufficiently wide and you don't have too much cross wind I've usually found that someone is always just as eager as I am to move up and I can get a draft-tow up there if I watch for it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Placing technique
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 3:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:19 am
Posts: 781
Tinea Pedis wrote:
Also, getting yourself back to the front often enough will have others think "shoot, this guy really means business and wants to where the action is at" - which leads to making it easier to hold position. There are plenty of guys in a race who have no intention of seeing the front of the bunch, so having them know you want to be at the front normally lends to them not making life hard for you to move back up.


My best results in races have been as a result of this exactly. The days where I showed up just to work - and ended up asserting myself at the front during the early KMs are the days it was much easier to find myself there in the final KMs.

Also, at circuit races, if I find myself shuffled back I'll normally pass a dozen riders or so on the inside of a turn... this only works though (at least without being a dick) when you're racing against less than stellar bike-handlers who take turns much wider than necessary.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Placing technique
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 6:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:30 pm
Posts: 1486
Good advice above.

Let me just reinforce some ideas:
1. Concentration. Be relentlessly aware and constantly trying to move up, or at least far enough up to be in your desired position. I find myself drifting back when I just stop concentrating. A feel fine and all of a sudden I'm at the back of the pack.

2. Ride like you are a solid 300 lb piece of granite. Nothing can stop you from moving to the position you want. Nothing can push you out of it. It is your position; you deserve it, and you won't give it up to anyone for anything. It is sort of like a highly defensive version of "aggression".


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Placing technique
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 8:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:48 pm
Posts: 755
Location: Denmark
dgran wrote:
Are you losing position because of fitness or some other reason? If it isn't fitness, the key is to often to pick a position among people who damn well intend to be up front and be a part of that cadre. There is often a "cool kids" section of the peloton. Find it. If the road is sufficiently wide and you don't have too much cross wind I've usually found that someone is always just as eager as I am to move up and I can get a draft-tow up there if I watch for it.

It's not because of fitness. I am among the strongest in the peloton.

Thanks for all the advice guys. Will see if it will help me in saturdays race.

_________________
-----------------------------
I like Spanish bikes and cars. Riding an Orbea Orca and a Seat Ibiza.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Placing technique
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 8:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:44 am
Posts: 1264
Kermithimself wrote:
It's not because of fitness. I am among the strongest in the peloton.


use this to your advantage and keep pedaling when others rest. Whether that's cresting a hill or in a cross wind section.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Placing technique
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 3:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:00 pm
Posts: 4
I use to struggle with this too, especially when I wasn't confident about my fitness. The adage "if you're not moving up, you're falling back" is definitely true in my races. It does take concentration, but I find it's well worth it for a few reasons:

  • You're much less likely to be involved in crashes.
  • You actually have a chance for a good placing.
  • But the best reason is that it's just plain easier. At the back of the pack, even small changes in pace are amplified. I use to burn matches coming out of corners or cresting the tops of rolling hills. Staying near the front saves you energy.

As for how to stay near the front, being comfortable in close quarters is really important; you'll find that there's more space than you think, and if you just nose in, the guys next to you will usually move over a bit. Keeping speed through corners is also really important. My goal is always to not brake in corners -- within reason, of course.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Placing technique
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 9:14 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:19 am
Posts: 572
Location: nr Derby, UK
Good advice, and this has made interesting reading for me as well as I have the same problems.
On the other side, I clearly looked too keen yesterday as I ended up on the front when I wasn't intending it. How would you rein that in to drop back a spot or two in line? Clearly the idea is not to return to the original issue and keep sliding all the way to the back.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Placing technique
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 2:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:48 pm
Posts: 755
Location: Denmark
LloydP wrote:
Good advice, and this has made interesting reading for me as well as I have the same problems.
On the other side, I clearly looked too keen yesterday as I ended up on the front when I wasn't intending it. How would you rein that in to drop back a spot or two in line? Clearly the idea is not to return to the original issue and keep sliding all the way to the back.

I did the same at a race yesterday. Drop the speed, and have 3-4 guys pass you before you take their wheel. Actually worked quite simple.

_________________
-----------------------------
I like Spanish bikes and cars. Riding an Orbea Orca and a Seat Ibiza.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Placing technique
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 8:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 4:33 am
Posts: 719
It's all been said here, but my first advice in massed-start track races for new riders is to get on a wheel going past you and always stay within a few riders of the front, and don't get trapped. The trapping part is harder to learn, but you avoid the whole problem mostly by riding every wheel or every line that is moving up. Never get in front or out in the wind and the effort is very manageable.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Placing technique
Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 8:40 pm 


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Placing technique
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:01 pm
Posts: 103
Location: Downtown Los Angeles, CA
I feel like my entire race (at least in crits) is spent saying to myself "move up, move up." The more crits I race, the more comfortable I find myself moving up and asserting my position.

If you have access to a large group ride, a good thing to practice is moving up the peloton from the back, and then repeating once you get to the front.

Now, does anyone have any advice for situations where you are where you want to be (let's say third wheel) going into the final stretch but then a group comes from behind putting you back in less than ideal positioning? This seems to happen more in road races where people begin jockeying for position in the front, allowing those behind to overtake, but I've seen it happen in crits where I went from perfect positioning to the back of the competing bunch (10+ position) in a matter of seconds.

_________________
Litespeed Siena: 13.56 lbs


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 
Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

It is currently Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:55 am

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Advertising   –  FAQ   –  Contact   –  Convert   –  About

© Weight Weenies 2000-2013
hosted by starbike.com


How to get rid of these ads? Just register!


Powered by phpBB