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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:24 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:22 pm
Posts: 85
iamalex wrote:
(edited to shorten) Someone from Wyndymilla posted on this forum that their frames are Sarto built too.

Don't worry - I'm looking at the many many alternatives too (including the EVO). Regularly in Condor and Sigma, two of my favourite shops.

As an endless procrastinator half the fun is reading and talking about bikes before making a decision! It's not stopping me riding and I'm not in any rush.


I was going to suggest Wyndymilla but their frames are all over your price point. Can I suggest you ignore weight for a moment and try a Super Acciaio, the ride is so good it's worth thinking about, especially with the roads in the South East as they are at the moment.

Otherwise, enjoy the search.


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Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:24 pm 


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:02 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:19 pm
Posts: 608
DMF wrote:
No one has yet to actually point out What the "problem" with the Sarto-built Mondo is... I mean in actual technical terms. What is wrong with the layup, workmanship, geometry, finish or quality of carbon used considering,the price paid?

would be interesting to actually forget the logo and forego the hype of lets say Cannondale and judge the Mondo on exactly what it is instead of what some hype buyers think it is? Can someone please point out the insufficiency or actual fault in the design/build spec of the Mondo and where it as such fails to meet or exceed its price point?

Commenta like "buy a pedal force" just seem uneducated at best...


Since their website states nothing besides marketing hype about how great and super it is, and Planet X typically has only sold open mold Chinese stuff at a markup, this new "partnership" with a full custom frame producer really seems like more open mold stuff that Sarto doesn't want to put it's name on but needs to make back the cost of their molds...

Not to mention anything that from the factory advertises a 25% discount on MSRP has an overly marked up MSRP to try to look like it fits in a class better than it really does.

From casual observation the bottom bracket shell looks paper thin, where every other manufacturer on planet EARTH is moving towards thicker, stiffer BB's.

Most manufacturers who aren't supplying their own forks are going with the known big brands 3T, Easton, ENVE never seen a Deda fork, but looking at retail it seems like a cheap alternative to the proven ones mentioned above...


Someone is welcome to be a guinea pig with their 1500 euros, I'll get my popcorn ready.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:37 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:14 am
Posts: 957
Location: Sweden
Again with the prejudices... You are clearly looking at Planet X (which is an office, not a bike manufacturer) instead of actually looking at this particular frame. And btw, do you think its the BB tube that actually flexes on any bike or so you think its the seat tube, down tube, and to some extent the chain stays that are flexing? Try bending a ~70mm wide x 45mm broad carbon tube... You could make the BB tube out of 30mm thick sheets of carbon and it would practically make no difference, it is not the tube which is being flexed, it is just the tube at the end of the tubes which are actually being flexed.

Back onT, there is some seriously harsh judgment upon a frame that is seemingly based on no actual facts. Is this WW or the MTBR-forum? I thought more of us than this...

I'm not saying this is a good frame, I'm just pointing out the blatant prejudice that is seemingly based on nothing. A good frame is a good frame no matter who makes it, its all in HOW its made, which there is no mention about anywhere? Just poor guesses...

_________________
Roadbike
Planet X Stealth w/ drop bars

Mountainbike
Van Nicholas Zion Ti


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:33 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:49 am
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Location: Mallorca, Spain
I guess the point is that any manufacturer, even the best one, can have a Friday evening frame which isnt a par with the rest of its range. Of course its speculative- its, erm, the Internet, after all. In this instance the concern is, given Planet x´s prior emphasis on "pile it high, sell it cheap", there are some legitimate questions about the suitability of this outlet to distribute a seemingly top of the range product in what is a very competitive sector.

Would you buy "premium Sushi" at McDonalds?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:39 pm 
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mjduct wrote:

Since their website states nothing besides marketing hype about how great and super it is, and Planet X typically has only sold open mold Chinese stuff at a markup, this new "partnership" with a full custom frame producer really seems like more open mold stuff that Sarto doesn't want to put it's name on but needs to make back the cost of their molds...
Not to mention anything that from the factory advertises a 25% discount on MSRP has an overly marked up MSRP to try to look like it fits in a class better than it really does.
From casual observation the bottom bracket shell looks paper thin, where every other manufacturer on planet EARTH is moving towards thicker, stiffer BB's.
Most manufacturers who aren't supplying their own forks are going with the known big brands 3T, Easton, ENVE never seen a Deda fork, but looking at retail it seems like a cheap alternative to the proven ones mentioned above...
Someone is welcome to be a guinea pig with their 1500 euros, I'll get my popcorn ready.


It sure annoys me when people who have no idea what they are actually talking about spew erroneous info on the internet.There is so much misinformation and apparent lack of knowledge about Sarto as a company in your post. Please read this (excellent) article which may give you a better understanding behind the history of Sarto as company and the concept of the "terzista" before you comment further. Feel free to edit your post if you like.

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2013/10/made-in-italy-a-tour-of-the-sarto-bike-factory/

Sarto was founded on building frames for other companies to put their names on. This arrangement is precisely their business model. Would you say the same if this frame had Fondriest on the downtube?
Sarto does not 'make money back to pay for their molds' because they build frames tube to tube with limited use of small moulds for specific frame components.
To me the price seems reasonable for someone who is looking for a no BS frame that is made in Italy by one of the most respected manufacturers out there.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:57 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:25 pm
Posts: 146
Location: London, UK
Evening All,
As always, thanks for the feedback. Leviathans cheesy-Quaver-bearing warning made me chuckle out loud. If I can head up north over the summer for the start of the Tour I'll try and get a Mondo test ride and let you know how I get on. Didn't mean to start the wider debate but it's an interesting read.

Racingcondor - The Super Acciaio certainly is a great looking bike, been seeing a few more in the wild recently too. Have heard many good things about it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:21 pm
Posts: 26
I have to agree with Pete.

I am currently setting up two bike brands. One will be manufactured by Sarto. It is a family run business whose patriarch Antonio has been in the frame building business for over 50 years. Even into his 80's (at least during the days I was at the factory) he was often first in and last out. He was actually testing ideas for manufacturing in-house tubing and there were lots of Italian expletives flying around every time something didn't go as planned. This hands-on approach to problem solving is evident throughout the factory with Antonio's son, Enrico who runs the company spending most of his time on the shop floor. It's actually quite entertaining watching them argue in Italian about the finer points of frame building! They do not make frames in molds. All tubing is sourced from the Italian aerospace industry and is Italian manufactured. All the frames are custom made in jigs tube to tube and everybody at the factory seems to be happy and were extremely friendly and helpful, even when I was being intrusive.

Quite a number of the pros you see riding around are actually riding custom built Sarto frames and for good reason. Sarto is amongst the very best manufacturers out there. Also think about it, many pro riders would be uncomfortable spending that many hours on standard size frames. A mold for a monocoque design costs in the region of 40k euros. It's ok to make a mold for a Peter Sagan or other elite rider, but teams are hardly going to invest that for the domestiques. Much cheaper to ask a company like Sarto to make a frame that imitates the real sponsors tubes and then throw some sponsor decals on it.

As far as I am aware Sarto are no longer building frames for Planet X. The frames they still have are stock remnants.

In this case, the sushi analogy would be would the premium sushi restaurant (read this as Jiro (loves Sushi)) sell you a Mc Donalds?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:25 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:09 pm
Posts: 1
I have a planet x mondo.. frame size L. i bought it from the Sheffield showroom about 18months ago.

I had a nanolight before the Mondo, so thats my only real comparison. i'm not a road bike junkie but appreciate a quality and professional build.

I loved this bike.. its soo fast and light. so much more responsive that the nano.

I don't understand why people say its ugly. the visible carbon tubing is beautiful and with the FSA wheel sand white bar tape and seat, it looks better than nearly all the road bikes I've seen. with the pedals on, it weights 6.9kg


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