Ciamillo is Restructuring

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Calnago
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by Calnago

@ZeroG: You're just reiterating what I've read from you several times elsewhere. Sounds like you have a long tough road ahead of you. You've clearly made some very very bad business decisions... putting you in an extremely difficult place to recover from, let alone succeed in the end. I can't imagine any dealer wanting to do business with you given your now somewhat infamous reputation. And so you are now saying "screw them all, the Easter bunny and his stupid vacations, etc". I'm sure at this point you really do believe you can do it all by yourself. That, IMO, is delusional.
Sometimes the smartest business decisions is being able to recognize when it's over and move on.


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ZeroG
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by ZeroG

The Artisan level of product manufacturing is more enjoyable and creates higher quality components. It allows me to deal directly with the end user which is also beneficial in terms of customer service. This is how I operated when I started and it has a proven track record of success.

ghisallo2003
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by ghisallo2003

ZeroG wrote:The Artisan level of product manufacturing is more enjoyable and creates higher quality components. It allows me to deal directly with the end user which is also beneficial in terms of customer service. This is how I operated when I started and it has a proven track record of success.



As part of this return to a better time, you must put everything right with everyone who has been wronged. I think you will need to work hard at this, swallow both pride and financial impact, but will then come through the other end with a renewed respect and audience for your products.

mattr
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by mattr

Maybe you should have shipped your manufacturing base overseas, spent less time worrying about pointless, unnecessary material certifications and more time making sure the manufacturing process was robust.......

Then you probably wouldn't be in this mess.

mattr
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by mattr

lewolive wrote:-When the goals are to raise the quality, the best solution is to reduce the volumes made, and never mind if customers cannot buy.
....... said no one involved with quality ever.

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ZeroG
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by ZeroG

ghisallo2003 wrote:
ZeroG wrote:The Artisan level of product manufacturing is more enjoyable and creates higher quality components. It allows me to deal directly with the end user which is also beneficial in terms of customer service. This is how I operated when I started and it has a proven track record of success.



As part of this return to a better time, you must put everything right with everyone who has been wronged. I think you will need to work hard at this, swallow both pride and financial impact, but will then come through the other end with a renewed respect and audience for your products.



Yes.

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andy2
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by andy2

To the moderators, Juanmoretime and Tinea Pedis specifically.

We have been watching this thread and the others on this forum related to Ciamillo for some time with growing concern. While we have remained silent until now, we believe the time has come to call a spade a spade. The big issue is not Ciamillo, his products or his business practices. The real issue pertains to the moderators on this forum.

For the forum to function properly, it needs to have a modicum of integrity. Moderators of any forum acting as shills for any product or manufacturer, flaunting the relationship in photos posted in threads on said forum, and actively promoting a product is questionable at best. However, when the moderators then choose to censor, delete, or remove any post or thread that raises valid questions about said product or the business practices of their pet manufacturer, they undermine the very credibility that makes a forum worthwhile.

Again, we are not addressing the issue of Ciamillo nor are we making any value judgements on the situation relating to him. The actions of the moderators on this forum, Juanmoretime and Tinea Pedis specifically, directly challenge the notion that this forum is a place of open, active and informed debate. That a side effect of their position is to alienate and undermine bicycle industry dealers is all the more puzzling but only begs more questions about their agenda.

The moderators now have a choice. If you choose to remove this post, and/or continue to delete posts you do not like, your answer will be resoundingly clear. We, like a number of others, will choose to cease participating in the forum with great disappointment.

P.A. Annerstedt
Adam Wais

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KWalker
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by KWalker

ZeroG wrote:The Artisan level of product manufacturing is more enjoyable and creates higher quality components. It allows me to deal directly with the end user which is also beneficial in terms of customer service. This is how I operated when I started and it has a proven track record of success.

This entire thread and almost every comment in it begs to differ with that last sentence.
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mnmasotto
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by mnmasotto

andy2 wrote:To the moderators, Juanmoretime and Tinea Pedis specifically.

We have been watching this thread and the others on this forum related to Ciamillo for some time with growing concern. While we have remained silent until now, we believe the time has come to call a spade a spade. The big issue is not Ciamillo, his products or his business practices. The real issue pertains to the moderators on this forum.

For the forum to function properly, it needs to have a modicum of integrity. Moderators of any forum acting as shills for any product or manufacturer, flaunting the relationship in photos posted in threads on said forum, and actively promoting a product is questionable at best. However, when the moderators then choose to censor, delete, or remove any post or thread that raises valid questions about said product or the business practices of their pet manufacturer, they undermine the very credibility that makes a forum worthwhile.

Again, we are not addressing the issue of Ciamillo nor are we making any value judgements on the situation relating to him. The actions of the moderators on this forum, Juanmoretime and Tinea Pedis specifically, directly challenge the notion that this forum is a place of open, active and informed debate. That a side effect of their position is to alienate and undermine bicycle industry dealers is all the more puzzling but only begs more questions about their agenda.

The moderators now have a choice. If you choose to remove this post, and/or continue to delete posts you do not like, your answer will be resoundingly clear. We, like a number of others, will choose to cease participating in the forum with great disappointment.

P.A. Annerstedt
Adam Wais

Rolobikes
Luxembourg/Sweden



Bravo!

jpanspac
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by jpanspac

I agree completely with andy2. I think the credibility of this forum is on the line.
My favorite components are the ones I never have to think about.

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53x12
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by 53x12

I agree.
"Marginal gains are the only gains when all that's left to gain is in the margins."

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CharlesM
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by CharlesM

KWalker wrote:
ZeroG wrote:The Artisan level of product manufacturing is more enjoyable and creates higher quality components. It allows me to deal directly with the end user which is also beneficial in terms of customer service. This is how I operated when I started and it has a proven track record of success.

This entire thread and almost every comment in it begs to differ with that last sentence.



That's different than saying the last sentence is wrong though...




When Ted started (and virtually created the aftermarket brake business as it is today), the product flowed pretty well and the feedback was mostly positive because people understood the company was small and also had reasonable expectations of the product (both the plus and minus). And Ted had more of his time focused on a single product.

The business grew, the market adapted, competition popped up and expectations grew.

In that time, ZeroG basically got to the point where his attention was diluted too much and things didn't go well.

Getting smaller and back to the basics and (THE BIGGIE) is pretty much the only way I see things getting better... There was a lot of positives to a small product offering, good QC and lower volume (at a higher price). Things worked well early on..


People can b!tch all they want (and deserve to) about recent business, but things worked better when they were simpler and smaller. I think that's the only way this works going forward.

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by bombertodd

Great post Andy2!!!

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boysa
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by boysa

A while back, when someone posted a "warning" to others about a company called Edco, it turned out to be entirely misleading. The entire thread was a farce. I asked for the thread to be deleted, since I felt it was unnecessarily slighting the company, and here was the response:

jipperd wrote:As for deleting this thread, yes we can, but we won't. If we would do that the forum would be create the situation that these discussions can't being 're-read'.


Seems that would apply here, no?

+1K Andy2.
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by Weenie


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Transparent
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by Transparent

Juanmoretime wrote:
andy2 wrote:To the moderators, Juanmoretime and Tinea Pedis specifically.

We have been watching this thread and the others on this forum related to Ciamillo for some time with growing concern. While we have remained silent until now, we believe the time has come to call a spade a spade. The big issue is not Ciamillo, his products or his business practices. The real issue pertains to the moderators on this forum.

For the forum to function properly, it needs to have a modicum of integrity. Moderators of any forum acting as shills for any product or manufacturer, flaunting the relationship in photos posted in threads on said forum, and actively promoting a product is questionable at best. However, when the moderators then choose to censor, delete, or remove any post or thread that raises valid questions about said product or the business practices of their pet manufacturer, they undermine the very credibility that makes a forum worthwhile.

Again, we are not addressing the issue of Ciamillo nor are we making any value judgements on the situation relating to him. The actions of the moderators on this forum, Juanmoretime and Tinea Pedis specifically, directly challenge the notion that this forum is a place of open, active and informed debate. That a side effect of their position is to alienate and undermine bicycle industry dealers is all the more puzzling but only begs more questions about their agenda.

The moderators now have a choice. If you choose to remove this post, and/or continue to delete posts you do not like, your answer will be resoundingly clear. We, like a number of others, will choose to cease participating in the forum with great disappointment.

P.A. Annerstedt
Adam Wais

Rolobikes
Luxembourg/Sweden


Adam, you are entitled to express your opinion and as far as I know do not have another agenda. Two posts were removed from this thead one that does have another agenda and that was a brand new member with only a post here support our "pet". I guess we should put that one back.

You can question my personal support of products that do work and I trust my life to on a daily basis. Kind of what everyone does here. Anyone here that would like to see exactly what I ride PM me and come to Central Illinois and ride with me and my team. Verses others here I have had bad experiences with products and choose not to start threads bashing the manufacturer in a negative way. My expression of opinion of Ted relate only to my own personal experiences. I'm sorry if I have had a good experience with product Ted has designed and manufactured. There was a time when Ciamillo had outstanding customer service. I admittedly was ham fisted when installing my first set of zero Gravity brakes and broke a cinch bolt. Ted at no charge overnighted some spares. This was so during a time when Ted did do this for everyone. Search, it's out there. This site started for everyone to share knowledge of light bikes. Custom made modifications, parts fabricated and of products that appealed in our quest to make our bikes lighter.

You will also notice I seldom post pictures of anything weight weenie items that I purchase for the past few years because I just rather ride it and enjoy. You will so find as of lately threads started by me as of the past few years are to try to tap in to the technical knowledge of the forum members. I have much greater interest in aerodynamics as a time trialist.

You can personal acuse me of being a shill but I really have nothing to personally gain. Other than having spoke to Ted Ciamillo on the phone and by email we have never met so I could not even say that he's a friend. I can be a big arrogant and opiniated and that seems to be just like any here.


I could go on and on but will stop here with my final comments.

There are many unflattering posts that are still on here and not removed, one of the two removed was a supported. Your post is still standing since we repect your entitle to opinion and there is no hidden agenda behind. Also this thread could have been locked or just pulled and even with Ted's opening statement is not very flattering. Sounds like he saw his sucked and admitting his flaws of running a business and wants to turn it around. My opinion only.

We are all cyclist with greater knowledge than average cyclist and such a small group it's very disheartening to see such bickering and name calling. Are we not above RBR?


No, you are worse than RBR because they at least have the stones to clear the air and let both sides of the story unfold.

Is your post supposed to make any sense at all?

No one cares what you ride, no one cares what brakes you like and no one cares about your personal experience from yesteryear on a bolt when there are literally dozens of people who Ted owes product, warranty and money to.

You seem to be incapable of answering pretty specific questions?

You allow only positive comments when in fact Ted still owes customers and "dealers" and has outstanding warranty issues that have taken over a year and are still unresolved.

You continue to waste your time banning IP addresses and forum members that would bring that information to light.

The question is, why?

You will gain more respect by staying out of it, really.

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