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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 12:33 am 
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in the industry

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 1416
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
I have 2013/4 record brakes on one bike and even though they are braking carbon rim they really grab possibly the best brake out there. Another bike has old DA 7403 brake braking nemesis rims and they pretty good too. Braking in the wet is very predictable and strong.

For lightweight I have the so so KCNC CB1 only 170g for the pair inc. pads but the braking performance is well O.K in the wet. They do judder though due to the flex, there is alot of that. Not recomended.

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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 2:01 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:49 pm
Posts: 1581
Location: Near Horgen, Switzerland
I live in the foothills of the alps and at 180lbs the easiest way to make your bike lighter but slower is to buy some non-groupset brakes. The only exception is EE, but they are not good looking IMHO. I used to run Gravitas carbon brakes but quickly swapped them back to DA when I moved here after some sphincter-clenching descents involving carbon rims, rain and an unknown 20% gradient with a large drop. If you live in Bahrain where it never rains and there are no hills then the Gravitas brakes or similar are fine.

Either get the 9000 or second hand 7900 if you want to save cash as the cable pull is the same. I've not yet compared the 7900 and 9000 brakes, but have no complaints about the 7900s. Campag Record is also very nice, but doesn't look right with a Shimano bike.


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Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 2:01 pm 


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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 3:29 pm 
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Posts: 1911
Location: Vienna, AUT
sugarkane wrote:
Sr brakes have good power and modulation but there is no way I. Hell they have more power than DA brakes. And wouldn't own shimano personally any time soon for the record.
If you want awesome light brakes with power on the level with DA brakes and modulation on par campagnolos SR brakes then EE cycle works is the ticket.


As mentioned, Tour tested both in the lab and on the road if I recall and ithe test was pretty conclusive. In fact from a power standpoint, even the Chorus brakes smoked the DAs. Questioning the Tour Magazine methods of testing is fine, but I have not seen anyone else slapping sensors on a dozen sets of brakes for comparison myself.


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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 8:12 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:54 pm
Posts: 651
Location: Reading, UK
oscarach wrote:
Does anyone have any experience with TRP 970\979 brakes? How is the stopping power and modulation?
Thanks.


I have a pair of the TRP970 brakes and like them very much. I'd class them as a conventional dual pivot executed in exotic material, that is, magnesium (it is still fairly exotic). They look sleek and they work as well as any other decent dual pivot while being noticeably lighter at around 200g/pair. Drawbacks: questionable QR mechanism but I use them with Campag levers so a non-issue, and price. They are very expensive new however I bought mine s/h off this forum.


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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 9:47 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 4:22 pm
Posts: 3538
Location: Tucson, Az.
We have done a bunch of testing on brakes, and what we've realized is that all the brakes work well, though there are definitely differences. We were able to stop in roughly the same distance with any brake, but felt more comfortable doing it on some than others.

Power has been talked about and that's something we measured, as well as cable pull, arm deflection, caliper deflection etc... What we've come to realize is that it's not as simple as saying x is the best brake. This really gets magnified once you start to mix pads, rims, levers, rider weights, terrain etc... into the mix. Trying to define and isolate the characteristics that make for good modulation is nearly impossible as each of us has a different expectation as to what is "good" modulation. We'll soon publish our first round of results which is simply calipers without regard to chosen lever (cables were pulled directly rather than with a branded lever)

For now how about a sneak peek at results in one category. Force to reach 90. This is basically how hard the cable needs to be pulled (in pounds) in order for the caliper to apply 90 pounds of force on the rim. We chose 90 pounds of force because it was at the upper end of braking. For some rim/rider/pad combos 90 pounds of force was enough to lock the wheel, but with other combos it was not, so it seems to be upper end of the spectrum. In this result a lower number is better as it requires less force on the cable to reach maximum braking force in the caliper. Keep in mind to get this measurement it isn't simply a matter of mechanical advantage because during maximum braking flex in the arms is also a factor.

1. Shimano 7900, 65
2. Thm Fibula, 66
3. Shimano 9000, 68
4. Sram Red, 69
5. EE Cycleworks, 72
6. Campag Super record, (dual pivot) 73
7. Far and Near, 75
8. Kcnc CB3 84
9. Kcnc C7, 86
10. Kcnc CB4, 88
11. Kcnc C6, 101
12. Campag Super Record, (single pivot) 102

Keep in mind this is just one aspect of the brake so just because a brake does well in this category doesn't mean it does well in all the others. So while 7900 tops this list when we look at compression to weight it hits 8th. We plan on releasing a road bar test next week and hopefully will get the results of the brake testing up shortly after.

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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 2:59 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Posts: 1736
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
Thanks so much for doing this work. I need to buy more stuff from you.

I assume that the Campy, Shimano and Sram brakes were tested with their levers. What levers were the others tested with? How did you position the measuring equipment on the lever to make it consistent across levers?


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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 3:25 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 4:43 pm
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Location: Wherever there's a mountain beckoning to be climbed
madcow, do you have results for Shimano 7800? And just for fun, how about for any "vintage" brakes, such as DA 7400?


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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 5:55 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:27 pm
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Location: Wales, UK
In the end I went for a full DA groupset. I heard so many good things about the 9000 brakes that 100 or 150g saved wasn't worth it.


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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 6:47 pm 
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Location: Tucson, Az.
eric wrote:
I assume that the Campy, Shimano and Sram brakes were tested with their levers. What levers were the others tested with? How did you position the measuring equipment on the lever to make it consistent across levers?


All the brakes were tested without levers. The cable was mechanically pulled without a lever to create a level playing field. We do plan on doing further tests which include the levers.

HammerTime2 wrote:
madcow, do you have results for Shimano 7800? And just for fun, how about for any "vintage" brakes, such as DA 7400?


Unfortunately not, the testing takes quite a long time. With the time it takes to mount the brake in the fixture in different positions for different tests, then repeat tests several times, we have probably 40-50 hours of fixture testing time just on those brakes. There are still several sets of current brakes that I'd like to test as well, but we'll have to wait for the next round to do those.

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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 12:52 am 
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Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 4:59 am
Posts: 79
I would go for EE brake as well because I just bought one to replace my Token brake which I also like it. Token is light, gripping power is better than Mr.Control but it does not fit for a wider rim so i have to change.
I also like new SRAM Red brake caliper since you have multiple adjustment to releash the brake to fit variety of rim width. DA and RED, I will go for Red

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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 1:51 am 
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Posts: 1200
Stolichnaya wrote:
sugarkane wrote:
Sr brakes have good power and modulation but there is no way I. Hell they have more power than DA brakes. And wouldn't own shimano personally any time soon for the record.
If you want awesome light brakes with power on the level with DA brakes and modulation on par campagnolos SR brakes then EE cycle works is the ticket.


As mentioned, Tour tested both in the lab and on the road if I recall and ithe test was pretty conclusive. In fact from a power standpoint, even the Chorus brakes smoked the DAs. Questioning the Tour Magazine methods of testing is fine, but I have not seen anyone else slapping sensors on a dozen sets of brakes for comparison myself.



Well Madcow has done just that and his data shows what I'm saying. Tour mags testing is always very biased and they get results that don't turn up any where else in the world

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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 4:31 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 6:55 pm
Posts: 1911
Location: Vienna, AUT
As I mentioned, questioning Tour's methods are fine and I agree they have some results in tests that one could drive a bus through. But until FWB, there is little to provide context against Tour. Seems odd that Tour would bias toward a brand that has lower advertising influence on the magazine and German speaking cycling community than Shimano, but FWB does a good job, so I am intrigued to see the full report.


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