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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 8:00 am 
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Location: Loveland, CO
I'm looking into the Shimano C35 alu/carbon clincher. Actual weight is 1549g. That's a 200g. drop from my current Mavic CC SLs. My guess is that the C35 is not that aero. I'm too slow anyways for any aero benefit so I guess the C35 might be a good compromise. Anyone here with a C35 please chime in. I will miss the good looks of the Mavic CC SLs.


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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 1:38 pm 
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"I'm too slow anyways for any aero benefit so I guess the C35 might be a good compromise."


Not true. Aero works all the time, even if you don't ride at pro speeds. If anything, it saves you more time on a course as you are riding slower and out on the course longer. Aero will always work.


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Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 1:38 pm 


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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 6:44 pm 
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Posts: 317
btompkins0112 wrote:
Pros get paid to ride wheels.....

I assume you also know that if need to win they rebadge wheels. Considering they generally don't and considering that they actually test rather well (belieing the silly remarks here). Perhaps evidence and facts show that some people are bashing them for no reason and out of sheer lack of knowledge? ;)

And to take Thor's hammer to this nonsense:

1. The street price is very good, belieing the notion that Enve, Zipp or Reynolds are cheaper.
2. Their service is good and they are widespread. Try to find an Enve, Hed or Reynolds dealer. Indeed, if you are European finding a Zipp dealer is quite amusing as well. And good luck with the service.
3. Mavic wheels are generally bombproof. Indeed that's more than can be said about some competitors (hello Zipp).

The slams against Mavic are just foolish snobbery. Choosing for Mavic is just as good as Shimano or Campa/Fulcrum. People dismissing them out of hand just have no idea how solid the products are.


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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 10:05 pm 
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Location: nyc
"The slams against Mavic are just foolish snobbery"

As are those against Zipp, some might say... lol

All good, they are nice wheels no doubt about it. I wouldnt kick them out of bed.

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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 11:30 pm 
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Location: England, UK
53x12 wrote:
"I'm too slow anyways for any aero benefit so I guess the C35 might be a good compromise."


Not true. Aero works all the time, even if you don't ride at pro speeds. If anything, it saves you more time on a course as you are riding slower and out on the course longer. Aero will always work.


I see this from time to time. I'm not meaning to argue, but don't aero wheels only start really working measurably well at faster speeds as air resistance increases? I'm sure I saw a chart which showed the savings in watts vs speeds of various wheels/rims some time ago and it made little discernible difference at the lower end of the range. Happy to be proven wrong.


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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 4:11 am 
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"The time savings provided by aero wheels are always going to be proportional to the power of the rider. It doesn't matter whether you produce 300 watts or 150 watts. In fact, slower riders may not be going at the same speed as faster ones, but aero wheels actually save them an even greater amount of time over the same distance." from here: http://www.hedcycling.com/tech.asp


Flo Cycling has this cool chart that might help too. It shows what happens when 100g of drag is removed.
Image
source: http://flocycling.blogspot.com/search/l ... FEducation


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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 8:13 am 
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TimW wrote:
I see this from time to time. I'm not meaning to argue, but don't aero wheels only start really working measurably well at faster speeds as air resistance increases? I'm sure I saw a chart which showed the savings in watts vs speeds of various wheels/rims some time ago and it made little discernible difference at the lower end of the range. Happy to be proven wrong.

here

http://www.aeroweenie.com/assets/backup ... ition.html

and here

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88913

have your answers.

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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 9:11 am 
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Location: England, UK
Thanks guys


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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 9:23 pm 
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Location: nyc
Pardon my ignorance and inability to do the proper investigation, but what depth of rim removes 100g of resistance? Or what combo of factors? Doesnt Gram resistance change w speed? No idea..

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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 10:30 pm 
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Location: Loveland, CO
gitsome wrote:
Pardon my ignorance and inability to do the proper investigation, but what depth of rim removes 100g of resistance? Or what combo of factors? Doesnt Gram resistance change w speed? No idea..


Yes, I though the chart doesn't make sense since the force of the drag is related to speed. At 1mph there wouldn't be a drag savings of 100g.

Anyways I do realize the aero benefit and that's why I'm riding Cosmic SLs. I want to upgrade the wheels to equal or less weight (currently at 1750g.) but with better aerodynamics. I've looked at the Shimano C35 at 1550g. however the rim profile doesn't look to be too aero. Another choice is the Shimano C50 and I like the profile (see attached). However the actual weight is all over the place, from 1710g. to 1925g. without rim strip. I've placed a call to my local shop and they are trying to weigh a set for me. I hope it's not over 1900g... :shock: I'm ruling out tubulars and carbon clinchers (too many steep descents here). I want to keep the budget at $1,500 or less.

Image


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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 11:15 pm 
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gitsome wrote:
Pardon my ignorance and inability to do the proper investigation, but what depth of rim removes 100g of resistance? Or what combo of factors? Doesnt Gram resistance change w speed? No idea..



Unfortuantly you must look at wind tunnel data. Rim depth alone does not mean much. Generally one can look at Zipps firecrest wheel line and the wheels get more aero the taller they get. The same thing happens with other brands aero offerings. However just because wheel X's 50mm rim is 10mm taller than wheel Y's 40mm rim, it doesn't mean that wheel X will be faster. It depends on the aero profile and numbers.

Reducing 100 grams of drag depends on the wheelset currently in use and the wheelset you're comparing with. It also depends on the conditions too. I think where you live can play a big role (wind).

The Cosmic Carbone SLR (same rim design as the SL with carbon spokes) is not very aero compared to other offerings. I'm sure with a little digging there is a wheelset that meets your demands.

Aero data from Tour Magazine:
Image

Note that graph is in Newtons, about 100 grams of drag is equal to 1 Newton.


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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 11:40 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
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Location: Loveland, CO
The dealer called me back and the Shimano C50 CL is 1,735g. without rim tape. This is a bit lighter than my CC SLs. The Shimano is 4mm wider and supposedly a lot more aero. What do you guys think?


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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 12:46 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:23 am
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"Shimano claims that the C50 is more aero than the 303, although the company declined to give out test data." - BikeRadar


"Shimano has come a long way in wheels. While not perfect (no wheel is), they’re now a legitimate player in the aero game.

…but how aero? Where are the graphs, charts, and grams-of-drag? This is, perhaps, Shimano’s Achille’s heel. In a world of marketing claims and hype, Shimano is decidedly tight-lipped about ALL of their products. At the launch event, we were shown an aero graph, detailing ‘drag’ on the Y-axis and ‘yaw’ on the X-axis – pretty standard, right? The only problem was that the scale was not labeled on the Y-axis, nor was the protocol detailed. Where was the test done? Was it wheel-only? Wheel-and-frame? Which tires were used? All we saw was that Shimano wheels had ‘lower drag’ than all competitors (who were not named). I don’t know about you, but this doesn’t pass my smell test." -Slowtwitch


These comments don't inspire confidence. But they are Dura-ace wheels which will have nice hubs. How much are the c50's? You might look into HED Jet 6 FR. They meet all your demands I think and they are lighter than the c50's.


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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 5:03 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
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Location: Loveland, CO
The HED Jet 6 plus is a nice wheelset. However I think the profile is a bit too high for my riding and weather here. The Jet 4 plus is at the same price as the Jet 6 which is a big disappointment. The Shimano C50 can be had for around $1,600. I think the HEDs are out of my price range.

One thing I like about the Shimano C50 is the low spoke count. Most high end wheels are now 18 or 20 spokes up front and 24 spokes in the rear. The 16/21 spoke count in the C50 appeal to me.

Could a wide rim be dangerous for a lightweight tube? The HEDs are 25mm wide and the C50 is 23mm wide. I'm now using Conti supersonic tubes with great success with my CC SLs (19mm wide). The greater internal volume of a wide rim would cause the tube to stretch more. Does anyone run the supersonics on a wide rim? I plan to run 25mm wide tires with my proposed wide rim wheelset.


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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 5:22 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:23 am
Posts: 307
I've ran a variety of tubes in Pacenti SL23 rim (24mm) and Flo 30 (24.5mm) and 25mm tires (Ultremo, Pro 4, Veloflex, Vittoria) with great success. I haven't specifically used the Conti supersonic tube though.


Did you see the Jet 5?
http://www.competitivecyclist.com/hed-j ... 00S-BK-CAM


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Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 5:22 am 


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