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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:39 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:59 am
Posts: 3
Hello all, new to the forum and cycling as well.. I need some guidance.. I bought a nice 2012 Fuji Altamira BLK SE and decided to build my own bike because i was liking road more than cross.. i bought the extra lite ultrastar expansion plug for my headset assembly. Fairwheel bikes sells this plug and gives install directions on their website. The thing is, the torque specs they give are for the previous model @ 15nm and are not the correct torque specs.. After i torqued it to 15nm it seemed like too much so i went to extralites website and they had actual torque specs of 7-8nm.. Im new to the carbon world and i dont know if i should be worried or not. I took it apart and looked over the steer tube inside and out. i dont see anything out of the ordinary and never heard anything odd.. any helpful insight would be great thanks


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:31 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:08 am
Posts: 2290
Location: Pedal Square
Especially with the expansion plug it is easy to find out how much torque you need, and it is absolutely not required to "crank it to 11" just in case. Once the fork is sitting tight (check by pushing the bike back and forth with the front brake pulled), you can just clamp the stem, even if well below max torque spec on the plug.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:06 am 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5848
Location: Belgium
Hi,

TS is worried about over torqueing the plug and damaging the steerer in the process.
Personally I just torque it by hand ( I know it's not the best advise), if I feel it's slipping I tighten it a bit more.
Naturally you should not go above the max. torque the manufacturer specifies but I usually get away with much less torque than that.
After all its only need to get rid of excess slack in the bearings and that's it.
Once the stem bolts are tightened it can no longer slip upwards provided you use a top cap and tighten the stem bolts properly.
The system I use actually uses a bung as top cap so the steerer pipe can't be over compressed from the outside either.

Ciao, ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:51 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:06 pm
Posts: 372
Location: Yorkshire - God's Own Country
Just want to clarify that we are talking about the torque used in tightening the wedge bolt in the expanding bung and not the top cap bolt used to set the headset preload before tightening the stem bolts.

The former needs enough torque to make sure the bung cannot creep up the inside of the steerer when the topcap bolt is tightenened. In my experience this turns out to be around 7-8Nm. Carbon paste might help but usually the serrations on the outer surface of the bung ensure that there is decent grip on the inner surface of the steerer. The topcap bolt generally requires substantially less than this.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:23 am 
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Tubbie Guru

Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5848
Location: Belgium
Hi,

It appears you're confusing the terms bung and plug.

In the case of the example I gave the bung and the top cap are actually a single piece.
The plug in this case is then the expander.

Ciao, ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:29 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:59 am
Posts: 3
Basically im woried about it doing damage to the steer tube from over torqueing it.. I know carbon is strong but i also know it can be damaged... I really feel bad about overtorquing that should have known better.. I should have let a shop build it for me.. Im just the type that likes to say " I built that ". Should i not ride it after doing that or i there something i can do to check it..? Would you be worried about it or not...


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:33 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:56 pm
Posts: 1168
Location: Canada
Easy to check for damage by removing everything and carefully examining the inside and outside of steerer tube for signs of damage. My opinion is that you are fine.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:35 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 5848
Location: Belgium
Hi,

Quote:
Should i not ride it after doing that or i there something i can do to check it..? Would you be worried about it or not...


You had the stem over the tube while doing that? No visible damage inside the tube or outside?
If yes and no, then you'll do just fine.

Ciao, ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:00 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:25 am
Posts: 1307
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Last thing I would worry about. Carbon tubes can actually be very strong when you are pushing from the inside out in a uniform way, as with an expander. However, carbon tubes are very susceptible to damage when compressed from the outside in, like with a stem. When fitting your stem use carbon paste and err on the side of caution in respect of torque specs.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:26 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:59 am
Posts: 3
Ok, I did have the stem over the steer tube when I over torqued the ultrastar but it wasn't tight just loose.. I will pull it apart again today and look it over again... Nothing with the steer tube looked out of place or abnormal last night. Thanks for the responses.. Hopefully next time I post it won't be due to a mistake... :oops:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:33 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 4:22 pm
Posts: 3669
Location: Tucson, Az.
Over tightening will not hurt the steerer tube at all. The reason for the lower torque value on the newer version is that the bolt head for tightening it is shallower and it may strip when installing or removing at the higher torque, but the bolt head will definitely fail before any damage can be done to the steerer.

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