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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:05 am 
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Posts: 88
As previously stated, most hubs have the space to run an 11 speed cassette on a 10 speed freehub by milling the carrier 1-1.5mm depending on the length of the freehub. As an FYI, you need to take off 1mm for Hed 10 speed freehubs and 1.5 for Zipp 10 speed freehubs. Both are working perfectly, plus I can just use an 11 speed spacer to run my milled cassettes on an 11 speed freehub body.

Not sure on Shimano 10 speed freehubs, though.


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Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:05 am 


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:05 pm 
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What cassettes are you using?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:02 pm 
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BeeBee30
If you're asking me ... It's SRAM Cassette 10-speed PG 1070 PowerGlide 12-28


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:03 pm 
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No, it's question for nigel, i guess ...
Sorry


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:31 pm 
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yeah Nigel, I wanted to know which cassette he is milling the carrier on as Dura Ace and Ultegra both have carbon carriers?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:54 am 
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Read this: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=115919&hilit=dura+ace+11+speed

It tells you how to find the 2.85mm in width needed to get an 11 speed cassette onto a 10 speed shimano 7900 wheel without modifying the cassette.
- Removing the spacer gets you 1mm, so only 1.85mm still to find.
- Milling down the freehub end by 1.85mm is possible, but then the centre of the cassette hits the freehub body
- So removing some material from the hub body is required to make things work without rubbing.

An alternative approach would be to mill down the freehub by between 1mm and 1.5mm until the cassette just clears the hub body, then shave down the back of the cassette as needed (if at all). This is likely to be less bother than dremelling the hub body, but means the cassette will not fit other wheels.

Or a second alternative might be to mill the freehub 1mm and then add a 0.8mm washer on the axle and a longer lockring on the cassette.

Anyone tried this? If someone comes up with a kit I think there are a fair few people who would be happy to pay for it.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:48 am 
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Promising title this post has, assuming it'll be compatible with Campagnolo, Shimano and Sram. It'll save a lot of people from having to buy new wheels or modify their current ones (if at all possible).

Without any substantiation it sounds more like a chimaera. Besides, what about wheel dish? I don't assume this solution will work with all cassette hubs. Who would inadvertently want their chain to rub their spokes in the highest gear? 2.85mm is a lot of extra space that's not always easily found between dropout and spokes. When can we expect more news about this compatibility-issue-bridging cassette?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:52 am 
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I'm guessing that the cassettes have a low gear sprocket of at least 27/28, and the sprocket is moved about 1.85mm closer to the spokes with the indent 'over the spokes'.

But because the low gear is 27/28, it would at least move the derailleur lower, and further away from potential spoke touching. Whereas a 23 low would definately result in spoke touching.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:09 am 
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I took the 12, 13 (one piece) from my kcnc 10sp. cassette and had a local machine shop reduce the spacer to 11 speed spacing. I also had an indent machined into the face to allow the lock ring to engage, I ordered a Chris King lock ring as it has a longer 5mm thread. I now can run any 9000 or 6800 cassette starting with the 12, 13 kcnc sprockets.
I could have done the same thing with an 11, 12.
I have pictures if any one is interested.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:39 am 
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I did a detailed post when I completed the upgrade, if you search under "classic look 585, now 11 speed" you can see the details including photos.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:02 pm 
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The best center to right flange spacing you can get with all speed is about 18mm. Theoretically, any 10 Shimano hub that has a center to right flange at 18 or less could benefit from some sort of 11 speed cassette that mounts on a 10 speed body. If over 18mm you can have a clearance problem with the rear mech. It partially depends on the depth of the rim and also the cassette stop distance from the dropout. The deeper the rim profile, the more clearance you have.

Here are some 10 speed hub center to right measurements (in Shimano)
Chris King R45 - 18.5mm
Chris King Classic - 18.6mm
White Industries H3 - 18.3mm
Shimano 6600 - 19mm
Shimano 7850 - 18.8mm (all Shimano 8-10 speed in this range so no go)
Tune Mag 180 - 18.6mm (latest version, older ones were 18.3mm)
DT Swiss 240 - 16.8mm
American Classic - 16.7mm
Phil Wood road - 17.5mm
Powertap SL - 17.7mm

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:13 pm 
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Definitely not universal. Like you said there are special circumstances where you can use 11spd cassettes on a 10spd wheel. But you first need to use every last fraction of a mm of clearance near the dropout, and then see if you have clearance at the spokes... and enough to account for wheel movement... and if you laced your DS outside-pulling, that isn't going to help either.

I'm running an old Alchemy Orc (19.6 mm DS?) on the rear now, and I think I'd have enough clearance near the spokes for an 11spd (with my DA 7700 derailleur). 28mm deep rim, laced 2x. No room on the other side though.

I disagree that hubs with a DS spacing >18 are always a no go... it may still be possible on most of them, but you will need narrow spacers to get it precise. Whatever this special cassette is, it should have the ability to move inboard 1.8mm farther than a S11 cassette, include a set of narrow spacers, and a heavy duty lockring.

EDIT: Didn't realize the 11spd cassette was 2.85mm wider than 10spd... thought it was 1.8mm. That means it would need the ability to move 2.85mm inboard, which is a lot...

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:56 pm 
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Exactly. The optimized center to right for 11 speed is about 18.2mm. Not surprisingly, Alchemy 11 speed is 18.1mm. If the flange is any further to the right, you may have interference with the rear mech. Again, depth of rim and exact cassette stop spacing are factors. R45 hubs don't use the same cassette stop spacing as Shimano. Alchemy is the same as Shimano. It was one of the things Jeremy wanted so people can swap wheels with other Shimano standard spacing and not have to adjust their rear mech limit screws.

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