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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:59 am 
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So I've just had my 2nd SRAM shifter break on me in 3 years and this is my 3rd incident of a SRAM part failing on me pre-race. I love the clunky shifting of SRAM and the ergonomics... but I can't live with the unreliabilty.

*Rant part over.

So since I've got to buy a new group, I'm looking at changing from 10s to 11s, and moving over from SRAM to shimano/Campy. problem is with the existing parts it could be a costly endeavour. Currently my wheels (3 pairs ) are all 10s shimano with 3 cassettes
( 12-23, 12-25,12-28) for variability purposes. the group on the bike is a SRAM rival/force/ultegra mix ( rival shifters and brakes, ultegra 6700 front D, force rear D. and obviously the rear shifter is broken.)

so the question is: if I change over to campy/ shimano 11s , will I be able to re-use the perfectly servicable rival brakes and ultegra 6700 front D with 10s shimano casettes and then replace those slowly as they wear out? ( obviously this would be slightly easier with shimano, campy may be abit more troublesome. )


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Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:59 am 


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:05 am 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
What is failing with the SRAM shifters? Has it always been a Rival shifter? The double tap lever on Rival and Apex is a pretty common failure. It is pretty much non existant on Red and Force. Why not buy some Red or Force levers? More cost effective than changing multiple parts and you get to keep the shift feel you like.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:40 am 
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I have SRAM Red on two bikes, >22,000 k on one set, >5,000 on the other, nil issues. (If not running the ti FD). Compared to my mates who run dura-ace I NEVER have to adjust my derailleurs once set up and never get stuck between sprockets on my cassette (campy)

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:56 am 
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Here's an economical way to get Campy shifters.

Get Campy 10 speed (perhaps NOS) shifters (and cables), Shimano Rear Derailleur and Jtek Shiftmate model #3 http://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.php. Keep everything else as is.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:51 am 
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Strating on the 4 season on my Red shifters. About 18,000 miles and still going strong. Zero issues. I do have Apex shifters on my cross bike but the are only about 8 months old and don't really get ridden much.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:01 am 
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The problem is that I've lost faith in SRAM reliability. I used to work in a shop and I am a mech engineer by trade. I have taken apart the parts that have failed on me and noticed two things: SRAM design philosophy is geared toward weight savings and keeping costs low, not reliability. This is evident in their rather extreme machining of critical components and material choices. ( take apart a sram shifter and you'll see what I mean ). Nothing wrong with this philiosophy, it's just a tradeoff between reliability and cost/performance. SRAM lever design is also rather crash sensitive, and as I race, I can't afford that. ( the chances you will NOT be riding on after a crash on sram levers, again due to their design, is significantly higher than that of either campy or shimano). I was willing to put up with it's defeciencies for awile... but this is the third time sram is failing on me race week and I highly doubt I'll be going back.

SRAM is not significantly cheaper than either the big S or campy- and I see no point in buying a NOS 10 s force/red shifter when I would eventually upgrade to 11 anyway. so why not go 11 straightaway?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:58 pm 
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Location: Zürich, Switzerland
1. Sell everything
2. Buy Chorus group, Zonda wheels
3. Be happy....

:)

4. Later on upgrade to SuperRecord/Boras ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:59 am 
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davidalone wrote:
So I've just had my 2nd SRAM shifter break on me in 3 years and this is my 3rd incident of a SRAM part failing on me pre-race. I love the clunky shifting of SRAM and the ergonomics... but I can't live with the unreliabilty.


Lenard Zinn asserts that Campagnolo 10 speed shifters (NOS 2010 Ultrashift would be the preferred choice, although Campagnolo still makes Record and Chorus QS levers (the rounded 9/10 speed shape that go 5 cogs smaller and 3 larger, not the Escape mechanism paired with the QS front derailleur ratio change)) do a fine job running SRAM derailleurs with SRAM/Shimano 10 speed cassettes.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2008/03/ ... -not_73404

SRAM totals 27.9mm of pull versus 27.0mm for Campagnolo 10; although the SRAM pulls are a uniform 3.1mm while Campagnolo pulls vary.

Lenard also mentions a Campagnolo to SRAM shiftmate, although perusing the jtek website only reveals a Camagnolo 10 to SRAM 1.1 mountain bike adapter and those have a different actuation ratio from their road derailleurs.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:21 am 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
davidalone wrote:
The problem is that I've lost faith in SRAM reliability. I used to work in a shop and I am a mech engineer by trade. I have taken apart the parts that have failed on me and noticed two things: SRAM design philosophy is geared toward weight savings and keeping costs low, not reliability. This is evident in their rather extreme machining of critical components and material choices. ( take apart a sram shifter and you'll see what I mean ). Nothing wrong with this philiosophy, it's just a tradeoff between reliability and cost/performance. SRAM lever design is also rather crash sensitive, and as I race, I can't afford that. ( the chances you will NOT be riding on after a crash on sram levers, again due to their design, is significantly higher than that of either campy or shimano). I was willing to put up with it's defeciencies for awile... but this is the third time sram is failing on me race week and I highly doubt I'll be going back.

SRAM is not significantly cheaper than either the big S or campy- and I see no point in buying a NOS 10 s force/red shifter when I would eventually upgrade to 11 anyway. so why not go 11 straightaway?


I've gutted shifters for use in 1 by drivetrains. I've put the red shift mechanism (from shifters with broken shift bodies or brake levers post crash) into rival/apex levers as an upgrade. All multiple times for myself and friends. I'm very familiar with what every piece inside all levels of their shifters are. Apex and Rival are cheap. Force and Red aren't.

By all means go ahead and swap if that's what you want to do. I just find it silly that you admit you like the shift feel and function of SRAM but would change due to failures of parts that are known to fail without trying models they offer which don't have a similar issue.

As an aside, I've crashed on Red levers and damaged individual components. I've been able to buy them and rebuilt shifters (shift body was $25). Try getting hold of individual components for a Shimano shifter AND being able to rebuild them yourself.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:55 am 
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Fair point that I haven't tried force or red. but sorry, I've lived with this deficiency for a few years now and I don't think I can be blamed for hesitating to throw money after sram again when I've suffered 3 critical failures at critical time periods ( in the week prior to a race. ) I've never had problems with 105 or dura ace which I've used, so I'd be much more inclinced to go back.


In addition to the relibility issue, I never said SRAM isn't fixable. it is. And usually far more sevicable than shimano IF you can get the spare parts ( the local sram distributor is a dick though, he want's people to buy whole new groups so he wont bring in spare parts.) But tell that to the many racers who CAN't carry on their race post- tumble who are on sram. you notice that ALOT more with sram riders than other groups. I don't know about you but I don't have a team car with a spare bike following me around. Ask any race mechanic- shimano groups are way more crash resistant- simply because they are built like tanks.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:07 pm 
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I think shimano's crash resistance is more down to the fact the brake levers move inward in order to shift, whereas the brake lever on SRAM is fixed. More a result of function than superior construction. But it sounds as if you have made up your mind. Changing will be expensive.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:04 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:33 pm
Posts: 238
SalsaLover wrote:
1. Sell everything
2. Buy Chorus group, Zonda wheels
3. Be happy....

:)

4. Later on upgrade to SuperRecord/Boras ;)




Excellent advice.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:44 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:17 pm
Posts: 101
SalsaLover wrote:
1. Sell everything
2. Buy Chorus group, Zonda wheels
3. Be happy....

:)

4. Later on upgrade to SuperRecord/Boras ;)



Agreed! But I would start with the SR first!

P.S. Anytime you try to hybridize your group ...there may be compatibility issues. Just sell the entire group set...you won't regret it.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:24 am 
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davidalone wrote:
SRAM design philosophy is geared toward weight savings and keeping costs low, not reliability


I'd say the above is spot on. And since a couple of grams didn't matter to me, I sent Shimano

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:23 pm 
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Location: Toronto, Canada
I have been on SRAM for over 6 years and too many groups to count. My Cross bike is running 2013 Red and I have crashed on the right side 3 times in the past year with that group. Same lever every time and the crashes were on my commute so they were on asphalt and concrete. The shift leaver and the housing look like hell but they are still going strong. I also sell my groups to my friends after I am done and all those are still going without issue. Again all of mine have been Force or Red so perhaps that is the difference. Just get some force or red 10spd as they are out of date now and not as expensive.

Just a note the only thing that has broken any SRAM lever I have had was smashing into the side of a minivan that cut me off. Before I used to run Shimano and used to break shifters in crashes as they mechanism was right on the front of the lever so it was the part that would take the greatest impact.


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Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:23 pm 


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