Fixed my problem with 11 speed on a 10 speed freewheel

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
lannes
Posts: 418
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:51 pm

by lannes

I just posted this fix on bikeforums (using my other user name)

Swapped over to Dura Ace 9000 mechanical when building out some new bikes, the problem was that all wheelsets I have only had 10 speed freewheel and the free hubs on them could not be changed to the 11 speed version.

So riding the 10 speed cassette using the 9000 derailleurs was a bit of a comprimise and it did not have perfect indexing due to the difference in the cog gap between 10 and 11 speed cassettes.

To make the 11 speed cassette fit, I removed the smallest cog (11 teeth) and reused the lock ring from the 7900 cassette which fits perfectly into the 12 cog.

The set-up works flawlessly so far, with perfect indexing given the 10 speed cassette now has the smaller 11 speed cog spacing.

This especially advantageous if you have expensive 10 speed wheelsets that can't be upgraded, (e.g Reynolds 2011 RZR's and pre 11 speed Shimano wheelsets) or you don't have the full budget to upgrade.

Hope this works for others in the same position as me.

In this photo you can see the lockring fits perfectly with the 12 tooth cog and allows the cassette to be tightened normally.

Image
Last edited by lannes on Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kode54
Posts: 1125
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 9:39 pm

by kode54

No need to quote the entire post above. Or at all.

besides taking out the smallest cog...did you use the spacer as well, so the cogs aren't loose?
- AX Lightness Vial EVO D + DA9150 + Enve SES 3.4 carbon hubs
- Parlee Altum + DA9150 + Enve SES 4.5 carbon hubs
- Parlee ESX + DA9150 + THM SRM PM + Enve SES 6.7 CK hubs
- Independent Fabrication Ti FLW + DA9100 + Enve 3.4 CK hubs

by Weenie


ToffieBoi
Posts: 357
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:54 pm

by ToffieBoi

With a rasp file, I created a few mm more space for my cassette. That's how, I am using an 11 speed cassette on 10 speed hub.

lannes
Posts: 418
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:51 pm

by lannes

kode54 wrote:
besides taking out the smallest cog...did you use the spacer as well, so the cogs aren't loose?


I am just using the 1mm shimano spacer, but depending on your free wheel length, you may need to add more, so that like you said the cogs are not loose.

lannes
Posts: 418
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:51 pm

by lannes

ToffieBoi wrote:With a rasp file, I created a few mm more space for my cassette. That's how, I am using an 11 speed cassette on 10 speed hub.


Good option, but there is no more length in the RZR free hub that I can file away.

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rainerhq
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Location: Estonia

by rainerhq

My friend took his Roval wheel freehub body to turner shop and they created this 2mm extra space. He is running now Ultegra 11sp with no issues.
"Nothing compares to the simple pleasure of a bike ride"
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mogwaiboi
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:09 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by mogwaiboi

I was able to get the 6800 shifting pretty much spot on by just using a 105 11-25 cassette and adjusting the limit screws / cable tension as per normal. I did try removing a cog from the 6800 cassette but it didn't shift as well as the 105 for me.
Focus Cayo - Ultegra 6800 - HED Belgium +
Giant TCX Advanced Pro 2 - 105 5800 (XT rear derailleur w/40T)
Cervelo R3 - Ultegra 6800 - Campagnolo Zonda

lannes
Posts: 418
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:51 pm

by lannes

Yes that would work, my experince with the 7900 cassettes and the 9000 RD is that it works, but there was always a messy upshift on the midrange cogs which required a downshift to reset.

Are you using a 11 speed chain, that might be the reason for the acceptable shifting ?

Logically a 6800 cassette (with 10 cogs and 11 speed spacing) should shift better with the 6800 rear derailleur, when you removed the cog did the lockring tighten enough to remove lateral play from the 6800 cassette ?

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MajorMantra
Posts: 293
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:38 pm

by MajorMantra

Can you not got Campag freehubs for any of your wheels? That way you could use all 11 speeds with a Campag cassette.

lannes
Posts: 418
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:51 pm

by lannes

Could probably go with a campag 11 freewheel, but the RZR hubs are not serviceable locally, they have to go back to Reynolds in Utah, which is an astronomical cost from Australia.

gummee
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:01 pm

by gummee

I've read on the innerwebs that Zinn and Gaulzetti found someone to machine some space off the back side of their freehub bodies to get room for 11 gears on otherwise 10sp freehub bodies. We're *only* talking about 1.8mm. Maybe a bit less.

I have a friend of a friend with a machine shop in his garage who I'd like to have try, but he's leery 'cause he did something for someone a while ago on a freehub body and it didn't work. I suspect when he sees what I want done, he'll agree. I've got a dead D/A freehub body for him to practice on. So even if he DOES mess up the first one it isn't a loss.

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ultyguy
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Location: Geneva

by ultyguy

Agreed with first post. I've taken off the 11 cog, put a 1mm spacer behind the last cog, and run it on a 7900 series hub without issue (except obv derailleur adjustment). Fwiw- I've tried it on other 10 speed hubs but spacer needs vary.

mike
Resident Pro
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Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 9:42 pm

by mike

just buy an 11 speed campy version cassette for your 10 speed shimano drivetrain. see here: http://wheelsmfg.com/products/rear-driv ... sions.html

no filing of your cassette body needed.

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mogwaiboi
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

by mogwaiboi

lannes wrote:Yes that would work, my experince with the 7900 cassettes and the 9000 RD is that it works, but there was always a messy upshift on the midrange cogs which required a downshift to reset.

Are you using a 11 speed chain, that might be the reason for the acceptable shifting ?

Logically a 6800 cassette (with 10 cogs and 11 speed spacing) should shift better with the 6800 rear derailleur, when you removed the cog did the lockring tighten enough to remove lateral play from the 6800 cassette ?


Yes I'm using an 11 speed chain. The lock ring tightened properly when I tried the 6800 cassette but I was getting a delayed upshift in the middle of the cassette.
Focus Cayo - Ultegra 6800 - HED Belgium +
Giant TCX Advanced Pro 2 - 105 5800 (XT rear derailleur w/40T)
Cervelo R3 - Ultegra 6800 - Campagnolo Zonda

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WMW
in the industry
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Location: Ruidoso, NM

by WMW

lannes wrote:The set-up works flawlessly so far, with perfect indexing given the 10 speed cassette now has the smaller 11 speed cog spacing.


But...

You have an 11spd drivetrain and only 10 spds.
You no longer have an 11t cog.
Since you need to adjust your derailleur to make this work, you cannot easily swap to an 11spd wheel.

There must be a better solution than this...
formerly rruff...

by Weenie


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