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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:18 pm 
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Location: The Far East
Advice and opinions welcome ...Just treated myself to my dream $2500 frame with a custom paint job from a well known London based Shop and Bike brand , now the frame is BB30 at the time of ordering i advised them that i would be running an almost new 2012 Campag Carbon Power Torque Red n Black groupset and they even confirmed what BB30 cup size i would need .

My LBS fitted the cups to the frame and they dont sit flush against the BB shell even though they are against the lip of the BB Sleeve / collar appears there an 2 mm gap between the BB cups and the BB shell , now upon seeking advice from the frame maker they advised to " grind or file " down the cups a couple of mm`s so they would sit flush , my LBS mechanic / Owner was agasht at this suggestion and sought advice from VeloTech who are the official UK Campag service center his answer was unprintable :roll: on these pages , now i always thought that BB30 relied on a decent contact surface for the cups to sit against and grinding cups down defeats the objective of BB30 .

The frame maker has now come back to me admitted that the way there BB shell is made ( machined from a solid billet ) means Power Torque cups are not compatabile and is offering a Threaded insert so i can run standard BSA cups but that kinda defeats the object of having BB30 which was a selling point of the frame..... or at cost price the new Over Torque chainsets which are 11 speed / Ultra Torque chainsets which i belive only come in 11 speed Chorus or Record guises these days which is still another $400 to spend .

Am i being picky by rejecting the above solutions or any advice or feedback that i have not thought about .


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Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:18 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:20 pm 
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Location: Reading, UK
Bearing cups are cheap and replaceable, modifying a pair wouldn't cost much. Sometimes a mechanic needs to be creative, it's not grinding, it's tuning! But will this approach definitely be successful?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:31 pm 
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Quote:
but that kinda defeats the object of having BB30 which was a selling point of the frame..


I'm not sure I understand the logic of ordering a BB30 frame to use specifically with a PT crankset, but on with some ideas:

From the sound of this you have a BB shell that is not a nice clean even 42mm diameter all the way through. It narrows down, is that correct? Perhaps there is a lip as the bearing stop instead of a machined groove.

If that's the case then you would also have a problem fitting a sleeve to convert to BSA.

If the frame will take pressed-in bearings then the Campy OT crankset with spacers would work. Or forget the Campy crankset and use SRAM or another true BB30 crank.

If you already have the cups and crank, I suppose you could try the heretical idea of grinding them down, just the absolute minimum, and then using a loctite pressfit assembly compound.

The worst that would happen is that they work loose and you have to go back to the BB30 crank resolution.

To illustrate here is a picture of the Campy cups. The "O" ring you see normally fits into the groove that a BB30 shell is supposed to have where the clip goes. So presumably it helps a little to retain the cup in the frame. If grinding the cups to fit your frame I'm guessing it would have to be back to where the "O" ring starts. So, I definitely think an appropriate loctite compound would be in order.

Image

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:34 am 
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Just think of the grams you will be loosing!

I would be pissed, but if done correctly, then only you will know.

I work on many ultra expensive cars and although I do have pride that if someone disassembled anything I have done, it would be done right. There are times that it would appear a 'Butcher' put it together, only I know that.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:06 am 
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Location: Calgary
If you really like the frame and want Campy, I'd just use the Over Torque. I have three bikes running 11 speed cranks with 10 speed groups and they work well. Just sell the Power Torque stuff to reduce your cost and chalk it up to lousy frame builder who told a fib to make a sale.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:05 am 
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.


Last edited by Causidicus on Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:37 am 
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Causidicus wrote:
There's really no difference in the Power-Torque cups to the Ultra-Torque cups in fitting. What they have supplied you is a BB shell which doesn't fit either. They need to lathe/line bore out the step in the BB tube which prevents the cups from being installed or to provide you what you paid for (BB with Campagnolo cup compatibility).


As for the logic in running PT cranks with a BB30 frame thats why Campag make PT BB30 cups and of course i had the groupset before the frame .

Well that makes sense as they dont use Ultra Torque Cups either but run with the Wheels MFG Campag BB30 Cups adaptor for there Ultra Torque chainsets , as you might be aware these adpators dont fit Power Torque .

The Retailer makes many claims about the BB30 feature online and in there marketing but now after me dropping $2500 on a frameset they have admitted that Campag Power Torque and Ultra Torque BB30 cups dont fit and that adaptors had to be used not to mention these do not work on Power Torque chainsets now if i knew this earlier my purchase descion would of been different .


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:24 am 
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sorry but your "logic" is illogical.

Just because Campy makes an BB30 adapter, does not make it the best solution, or even a good one. It's a compromise to make two basically incompatible systems work together. The best solution would have been a BSA BB. More research would have been the answer. Or asking here first!

If the builder is now offering you a (presumably custom made, 2-part) sleeve that will fit and convert it to BSA, then that's obviously the most solid as well as cheapest solution to your problem, as well as being what you should have done in the first place. Install the sleeve, use threaded cups and you are done.

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There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM


Last edited by bikerjulio on Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:35 am 
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+1

Ask Madcow about bb standards and what's the stiffest..
With his new crank testing jigs he's discovered that the old BSA threaded BB is every bit as stiff and the new press fit systems

At the end of the day with a set of THM BSA cups stalled you could still run a set of the new campag overtorque 30mm cranks

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:46 am 
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If you specified PT compatability then that is what they are obliged to supply.

How they do this is their problem, but equally if they do achieve this I guess you have to accept their solution.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:47 pm 
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If you grind off 2mm from the bearing cup, won't the crank spindle still be 2mm too long? You don't want the Campy bearing to be sitting 2mm outside the cup since it's fixed to the crankarm, plus Campy generally needs a wave washer on the non drive side pushing the arm out even further.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:09 pm 
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Wcl4 wrote:
If you grind off 2mm from the bearing cup, won't the crank spindle still be 2mm too long? You don't want the Campy bearing to be sitting 2mm outside the cup since it's fixed to the crankarm, plus Campy generally needs a wave washer on the non drive side pushing the arm out even further.


No.

OP's problem is that the cups won't fully seat in the frame. Presently the cups are bottoming out on a lip in the BB. If they can be fully seated then the spacing will be right.

_________________
There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:34 pm 
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Ah, the inner lip is preventing the cup from seating correctly? The bb width is correct? So both cups would have to be ground down 2 mm?

If you grind down both cups 2mm, I would think the likelihood of creaking will go up. Seems like a lot of hassle for a new bike - so I would take it up with the manufacturer - make them deal with it. Paid for with cash or credit?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:16 pm
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Location: The Far East
Wcl4 wrote:
Ah, the inner lip is preventing the cup from seating correctly? The bb width is correct? So both cups would have to be ground down 2 mm?

If you grind down both cups 2mm, I would think the likelihood of creaking will go up. Seems like a lot of hassle for a new bike - so I would take it up with the manufacturer - make them deal with it. Paid for with cash or credit?


Excatly what i was thinking Ref creaking and grinding cups down not to mention the rubber seal would be lost ....Manufacter claim they file all there PT cups for customers on brand new frame`s which i find amazing and of corse it was paid on Credit Card .


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Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:09 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:15 pm 
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Location: UK
Would a different brand of BB Cup convertor work as opposed to the campag ones, they may have less of an insert? Parlee do a PF30 to campag convertor, there must be other BB30 to campag convertors. Could be the cheapest solution?

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