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 Post subject: In Search of Cinelli...
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:30 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:46 pm
Posts: 16
Hi Guys,
First posting and was hoping for some advice/guidance.

Started cycling last year and bought a Ritchey logic/athena as my 'forever bike'. This was an upgrade from my 9 speed shimano Raleigh Clubman which still serves well as the winter bike.

Now I was plodding along nicely with this combination in ignorant bliss when I came across and narrowly missed out on a lovely looking Cinelli Pro best of/SR. I'd actually never heard of Cinelli and usually don't gravitate towards carbon but the package was pretty gorgeous and i'm still pretty bummed about missing out on it...

Anyhow problem is I've not seen another one for sale. Like nothing not even any of old frame!! Even Colnagos don't seem that rare. Is there a reason for this? Are cinelli just not as well known as the others or how come there aren't a few knocking about? I also noticed that their frame warranty is a year or two which seems odd compared to say Giant for the money.
Probably wouldn't be able to buy one brand new as i've realised that there is no 'forever' bike and would just lose too big a chunk on the initial purchase. I'm looking for a sportive friendly geometry as my bike fitter says my back and disproportionately long legs can't take the racy frames for long hours. I'm happy to keep waiting for the right frame I'm just in a data gathering phase.
What do people think of Wilier? colours not quite as cool as the Cinelli but looks good as well (Basso was on the list but too racy). it'll probably be the last bike (erm.... hopefully) before the minister of finance decides to divert the budget to less important things like children. I also looked down the titanium route but i'm not sure it is significantly better than steel to warrant the extra cost...

So anyone who has/had any of the above frames if you share your thoughts I'm happy to learn whilst I formulate a plan on my next build!

many thanks


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 Post subject: In Search of Cinelli...
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:30 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:46 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:27 pm
Posts: 255
Cinelli are classic bikes. a google search will reveal to you they are one of the most storied brands in cycling. they may not have the same 'race pedigree' as colnagos, pinarellos, bianchis or williers or other italian marques but they do have a rich history. They made a great name making quill stems/bars/seatposts/steel frames back in the 50s-60s.. in fact some of their steel frames are still very well regarded. Cinelli don't actually make very many frames- they have always been a small company and their focus is on making components, not frames, which may explain why they are rare. in 5 years of riding I can count just 5 cinelli road bikes I've seen on the road... and I worked at a shop that sold cinellis.

Cinellis have a huge reputation in the track/fixie/hipster bike world and they are 'cool' that way. Check out the bootleg mystic rats- very cool bike.They've always wanted to do their own thing rather than fight with the big boys in the all out competitive cycling arena, which explains alot of their quirky and unique paint schemes. they don't try to out advertise, they don't sponsor big cycling teams, and my impression is that their brand culture has always been abit 'underground'. their distribution has not always been fantastic and sales have suffered somewhat because of this. If you like them, and the brand culutre they promote, more power to you. Cinelli makes unique bikes whcih are nice and certainly won't hold you back. They CAN be found if you're willing to look hard, just more difficult to find than brands like specialized and cannondale.

Frame warranty is mostly a standard two years across the industry ( for most mainstream brands- I know boutique builders have sometimes 5, 10 or even lifetime warranties for steel/Ti Frames, but you also pay lot more.) Giant is the worlds largest manufacturer of bicycles and actually make bikes for scott, colnago, specialized, and many other companies out there. if they need to warranty a frame, it's a tiny drop in the ocean for them compared to a smaller maker like cinelli. Know what you are buying. Google is your friend. Giant make perfectly good bikes, albiet without the lust factor of those 'supposedly made in italy' bikes. personally, I wouldn't choose a bike based on warranty. I wouldn't choose a carbon bike as a forever bike either.

Ti versus steel? what you're paying for is the added durability of Ti, and the difficulty of working with it. Steel WILL RUST. even if it is 'stainless'. of course there are better grades of steel and you can protect it with paint and what not but steel will die, eventually, whether it takes 10, 50, or 100 years. Ti, if done properly, can be made to be virtually indestructable ( other than the sudden and violent application of force) . it's much more corrosion resistant than steel. ( much, MUCH more) but is also more difficult to weld and machine. and good quality Ti is expensive. Steel is much easier to repair if needed, though. Ti is not the stiffest material for a race bike if you want that. different materials will have different properties.

As for willier, they make good bikes, also with a long storied name in cycling. Aesthetics are relative though, and I don't like how they look. once again, google is your friend. But really, 99% of large bike companies make perfectly good bikes nowadays. You'd really be splitting hairs. Basso is one of the rare few bikes actually still made in europe and not taiwan/china but I don't actually think that matters anyway. their finishing may be better but the Asians- particularly big factories like giant and merida- are the experts at making bikes with carbon. narrow down your search with the appropriate geometry, and then after that choose something you lust after and test ride it. it's really that simple. buying a bike is not rocket science.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:06 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
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Location: Athens, Greece
:welcome:
Both Cinelli and Wilier have a huge heritage. You may search a bit on their history, it's interesting.
That does not mean these are better bikes than others. It's true that "most of the bike companies make perfectly good bikes nowadays".
Buy what you like to have in your room and ride on the road.

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My 6530gr Wilier Cento Uno
My 8618gr Colnago Master X-light


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:33 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 09, 2009 1:52 pm
Posts: 342
Location: England, UK
They are not that hard to find in the UK, some of the bigger chains sell them. You don't see many about though.

Cinelli have a lot of history but like many Italian brands trade on their heritage. I think all their carbon stuff is made in the east. That is not to say it is necessarily bad in any way, but you are paying a premium markup for the story and paint.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:47 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:38 pm
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Location: Toronto
The alloy Cinelli frame I bought last year is made in China.

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There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:28 pm 
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TimW wrote:
Cinelli have a lot of history but like many Italian brands trade on their heritage.

They do that a lot less than other, like say Colango, Willier, younameit though. Their "fresh" / "street cred" take on things has gotten them some blame here and elsewhere, but I find it refreshing that they are not just about the proverbial lateral stiffness and vertical compliance, like many others. Sets them apart. The XCR and Zydeco in particular are very interesting framesets.

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Bikes: Raw Ti, 650b flatbar CX


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:38 pm 
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Location: England, UK
Colnago do still actually make a couple of frames in Italy though...I like the Cinelli branding, bought a couple of cool T-shirts last year.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:36 pm 
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According to the website, the Cinelli Laser Mia is also made in Italy.

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Bikes: Raw Ti, 650b flatbar CX


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:38 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:37 pm
Posts: 537
Location: it's raining, it must be uk
fwiw i've got a cinelli xcr, hand made in milan, slowly

it's just been through it's 4th winter - i ride it year round, so many many wet rides, dirty and salted roads, after a dirty ride i hose it down and wipe it dry, it's still shiny, no rust, even inside the bb shell which gets all kinds of crud build up

afaik xcr tubing is made from the aubert et duval steel apx4, tough stuff


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:41 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:46 pm
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Hi guys.
Just to say thanks so much for the really detailed response. Certainly a lot of food for thought there. will take my time and just keep searching. indeed my fear for opting for steel - other than looks - was i would spend ages fretting over cracks/chips on frames so would be unlikely to be an every day bike... As an n+1 though...!
Being 67 kg and 180cm i had doubts I'll generating enough power to notice significant stiffness differential between them. Thanks for all the detail about the Titanium vs Steel think i'll have to ride a few more frames... Oh the pain!
Will update on progress.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:08 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:53 am
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I'd love a XCR tubed frame, so nice. Cinelli xcr, Condor Acciaio Stainless and Firefly versions all look so tasty to me for modern steel. Gaulzetti Cazzo super hot as well. For retro road I love the Tommasini Tecno and Colnago Master. The Cinelli Corsa is nice looking but not sure about the ride..


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:10 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:37 pm
Posts: 537
Location: it's raining, it must be uk
Granfondo2014 wrote:
<...>indeed my fear for opting for steel - other than looks - was i would spend ages fretting over cracks/chips on frames so would be unlikely to be an every day bike...


between cf/ti/steel, steel is going to be the least likely to suffer from cracks/chips

although ti tubing is generally assumed to be lighter than steel, for strength/stiffness, exotic steels like xcr and 953 are same or better weight for weight than 6al-4v ti ... http://reynoldstechnology.biz/assets/pd ... xtract.pdf

i'm 188cm so mine's a big frame, but with these wheels it's only a smidge over 7kg, i could lose easily another 200-300g if i ditched the pm and fitted light bars

just say to yourself, steel, mmm

Image


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:21 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:46 pm
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That is one fine piece of kit man. It looks like titanium. Sorry I didn't word that right i actually meant i was worried about chipping CF frames. Steel Frames seem robust enough for parking next to other bikes, taking to work etc.

Quick question - to make steel as light as titanium does it then become as precious? Or do you still feel fairly robust to chuck around and park at work etc?
thanks


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:13 am 
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I wouldn't worry about chucking either steel or titanium around.


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Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:13 am 


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:36 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:52 pm
Posts: 131
Location: Brisbane
After reading, I thought of this as possibly a 4eva bike, even though my recommendation is bespoke steel.
http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/page/late ... ?id=119086

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