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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:49 pm 
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I had some 404 FC's last year and loved them, really decent wheels- and the braking (with SwissStop Black Prince pads) was great.

I'd prefer to keep that level of braking, absolutely- huge confidence when coming into a hairpin a bit "hot" in the mountains.

How do the most recent HED rims compare to Zipp in the braking department?


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Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:49 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:08 pm 
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Like most things in life, it's all about trade-off's.

The lower the price, the more interested I'd be in the Reynolds Attacks. I rode a first-gen set for years and they were great; no issues.

I'm intrigued by the Zipp clincher 202 FC's, but wished they were lighter (~1.3kg). I've looked into building a set of clincher Enve 25's, but they're only marginally lighter as a set (~25-50g) and more expensive.

Furthermore, I'm dubious of the amount of aero superiority from the 202's. I'm willing to believe they're aero, but don't think they blow the others out of the water. Better? Sure, maybe some.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:11 am 
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Ok thanks for all the replies

So to surmise irrespective of cost peoples view is that zipps have a better braking surface?

Weight is much the same as the 2014 attacks are 1365g


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:30 am 
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Both are gorgeous wheels and I looked at them about a month ago as well as the 404's. In the end, my brain took over and I decided to try a pair of Fulcrum Racing Zero's that I got in the January sales at £599 for pre-season work and look at the Zipp's again in April. 1200 miles on and I've forgotten about the Zipps as the Racing Zero's bang for buck is just unbelievable. Light, stiff and awe inspiring at speed, my only big task at the moment is trying to find another pair for the same price as spares/future swaps.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:05 pm 
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perfectpink wrote:
Both are gorgeous wheels and I looked at them about a month ago as well as the 404's. In the end, my brain took over and I decided to try a pair of Fulcrum Racing Zero's that I got in the January sales at £599 for pre-season work and look at the Zipp's again in April. 1200 miles on and I've forgotten about the Zipps as the Racing Zero's bang for buck is just unbelievable. Light, stiff and awe inspiring at speed, my only big task at the moment is trying to find another pair for the same price as spares/future swaps.


Are the racing zeros carbon? What is your weight?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:13 pm 
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GregSherwin wrote:
Ok thanks for all the replies

So to surmise irrespective of cost peoples view is that zipps have a better braking surface?

Weight is much the same as the 2014 attacks are 1365g


not exactly the comparison, but my 303's vs my old DV3K's (same braking surface - Ctg), I can confirm that the Zipps stop better.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:26 pm 
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Location: Bristol
FIJIGabe wrote:
GregSherwin wrote:
Ok thanks for all the replies

So to surmise irrespective of cost peoples view is that zipps have a better braking surface?

Weight is much the same as the 2014 attacks are 1365g


not exactly the comparison, but my 303's vs my old DV3K's (same braking surface - Ctg), I can confirm that the Zipps stop better.


DV3K models are all pre-CTg. My Attacks and RZR's brake better than Zipps. Also, if you're not going for 2014 model Zipps then you get poorly designed hubs that will grenade on you.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:46 pm 
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I beg to differ. 2011 DV3K's were made with CT-g brake track. I had one, and made sure it had the improved track. They upgraded them for 2011, then phased them out (by downgrading the Assaults).

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:48 pm 
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Grill wrote:
if you're not going for 2014 model Zipps then you get poorly designed hubs that will grenade on you.

Proff of this?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:01 pm 
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Location: Bristol
http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40013&t=12930058


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:06 pm 
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in the industry
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One person who bought second hand wheels is all you have?

C'mon now.

Besides the hub has been updated since then.

I've had 4 different 2012/2013 FireCrest wheels ('12/'13, 404, 808's) and continue to use my 2013 404's, none have had any issues. I've sold at least 25 sets of 2012/13, none have had any issues that I am aware of.

Just sayin.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:31 pm 
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Location: Phoenix Arizona
And... that was a 3 year old (second hand) hub when it was posted 3/4 of a year ago...

There have been 12 series changes (with multiple updates per series change) to the 88 and 188 hubs since that was posted at Radar... Including directly addressing the drive side spoke carrying and (all) hub flanges.


I second that Zipp have the better brake track. I think it's the best available in cycling right now (though several companies are doing a pretty dang nice job) and that matters even more for clinchers.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:33 pm 
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Location: Bristol
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=4053719
https://twitter.com/ttworldchamp/status/338388624481607680
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/wheels-tires/zipp-hubs-not-durable-299828-3.html

It's hardly an isolated incident. Why do a lot of Zipp sponsored athletes use different hubs if the current ones are the dog's? The 2014 hubs (188v9) have changed from radial to a virtual 3x on the drive side and have larger bearings which is a vast improvement. Sure lots of people have no problem with them, but lots of people also have no issue with Chinarellos. Doesn't make them infallible or even good. For the money there are countless better options out there. Of course if it's just the 'prestige' of riding Zipps, I can understand.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:44 pm 
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Every example you just posted is a model as old or older than the +/- 4 year old version you started with... I know the post dates are newer, but like the original post, the product is not...

If your point is that outdated product that is no longer available and nothing like what's available now is not the best choice, you're right.

But the hub flange cracks were resolved for the most part a couple of years (and several revs) ago...

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:53 pm 
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Location: Bristol
Maybe, I still have no confidence in them, but given the opportunity I'd always go handbuilt.

Here's a newer example so 'most part' is still an issue for me. http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=4922088;


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Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:53 pm 


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