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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 8:39 am 
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Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Posts: 2029
Nah. Chain drives run at a relatively low speed and stop almost immediately in a crash.
Discs don't.


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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 9:00 am 
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Posts: 380
The crash hazard is a bit over stated.

Objects to avoid as you fly through the air in a crash that already exist and can do you harm include (but by no means exhaustively):

Off the bike:
Vehicles
Buildings
Pedestrians
Road furniture
Lamp posts
Signs
Other riders
The ground
Livestock

On the bike:
Chainrings
Pedals
Spinning wheels (I know from bitter, painful experience)
Handlebars
Stems

And I could go on. Most of these are larger, potentially more damaging and already in existence on and around road bikes. Yet I don't hear any calls for 'safer chainrings' or the likes. The point is, a disc rotor is almost the least of your worries in the event of a crash. Not a significant enough reason not to sanction the use of discs.

Disc rotors are quite small, and located quite far out of the way relative to wheel spokes. Having lost the best part of my thumb to wheel spokes in a crash, I can tell you that you have far greater chance of doing that than by getting your finger trapped in a 140mm rotor. Also, since the rotor sits within the frame/fork, you are relatively well protected from it.

I run discs exclusively now on all 3 of my road bikes. I am a convert. There are many valid reasons why they are difficult to translate into mass start racing such as tolerance in the event of a wheel change, different sized rotors etc. But there are also (inevitably) many people who haven't even tried them hurling all sorts of barriers in the way that are either not correct, or are criticisms that could be leveled at existing tech.

The fact is that for a standalone self supported bike, they offer huge advantage, but for mass participation events they have some issues yet to resolve.

I just don't buy the whole crash risk angle. Disk brakes have been used successfully now off road for decades where crashes are perhaps more common place and their use has never been challenged on safety grounds. On the contrary, the safety that reliable consistent braking offers is on balance far greater than the small risk of incurring an injury in the event of a crash.

I am not saying there isn't a risk. There is. But it isn't enough on its own to put the UCI off allowing the use of discs in mass participation road race events.


Last edited by solarider on Fri May 02, 2014 2:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 9:00 am 


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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 9:30 am 
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Posts: 313
I think I would like these for long and twisty descents but not for wheel changes and tight group riding with other riders on rim brakes.


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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 11:39 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:54 pm
Posts: 658
Location: Reading, UK
solarider wrote:
Objects to avoid as you fly through the air in a crash that already exist and can do you harm include (but by no means exhaustively):

Off the bike:
Vehicles
Buildings
People
Road furniture
Lamp posts
Signs
Other riders
The ground

On the bike:
Chainrings
Pedals
Spinning wheels (I know from bitter, painful experience)
Handlebars
Stems


I went out for a pre-work ride this morning on my disc bike and crashed. :-( Front wheel flat on a descent, I bailed into a soft but muddy verge.

Out of your list the things that did me harm were:
- the ground
- the bike (handlebars possibly, one ergo is twisted round and I have a strange graze on my chest).

Actually I got off fairly lightly all things considered although the bike needs a little work.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:41 am 
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Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 2:18 pm
Posts: 36
Ok Guys, think this might be a highly controversial topic. For the past 4 years I've been waiting for disc brakes to come to road bikes and since last year they started to come through - slowly though. I guess mainly due to UCI endlessly debating what to do on the subject.

Having had my bike for the past 5 years I would like to upgrade, ideally to a disc brake bike. However, at the moment there is only the Tarmac that is somewhat of the type of bike I am looking after: I like a 'no compromise', super-stiff, full-on racing bike (currently riding a super six and the best bike i test rode was a Cipollini RB1000), ironically I do not race so UCI accreditation doesn't matter to me. So I am very keen to hear

a) Your experience with road bike disc brakes (ie maybe on a Tarmac, Roubaix etc)
b) Your views as to what and when UCI will do
c) What you think are the downsides of disc brakes (please refrain from subjective assessment as ie looks)
d) Does it warrant to wait another year?
e) My alternative option that I am looking at at the moment is a Basso Diamante, anybody having experience with the bike?

Many thanks!!

PS: I searched the forum back till May and there doesn't seem to have been a intensive discussion on the topic


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 11:10 am 
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Formerly known as wassertreter

Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:08 am
Posts: 2013
Location: Pedal Square
No hard feelings either way, but ...

BCSS wrote:
c) What you think are the downsides of disc brakes (please refrain from subjective assessment as ie looks)

They are just not very common yet. Case in point, yesterday I flatted (nail/tack) during warmup. There would have been no way to get any sort of spare disc wheel before the start. Maybe I could have done a half assed glue job with my backup tub, but just using someone's spare was much easier.

BCSS wrote:
d) Does it warrant to wait another year?

I would think so. They will come, there is no stopping now that the big players are getting behind it. Whether you will be able to swap them between different makes/bikes remains to be seen, though (rotor size etc).

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:26 pm 
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Posts: 36
@moderator: A bit over hyperactive aren't we?? Not sure why my post doesn't warrant it's own topic, it's not only about UCI, what happened to freedom of speech and a bit of own judgement on this forum...the censorship you guys are entertaining here is a bit a joke!

Anyways back to the topic

@HillRPete: yeah that's my concern of buying now, that ultimately the UCI will decide a certain standard and whatever you buy now might not be compatible

Admin: think about all those who lurk, without an account, and appreciate having a ton of info in one thread for them to read. This forum caters for all. Please take a moment to think more broadly about it.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:50 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:37 am
Posts: 270
the mods here love to nazimod. just embrace it.

I have no experience with road disc but I'd still have no problem buying a road disc bike at the moment; new caad10 disc, colnago offerings, that basso does look nice. wouldn't buy a specialized but thats because their litigious pricks.

Biggest downside atm is the lack of good brake systems. Gotta go sram (sigh..) or shimano di2 for hydros which is the only kind of disc brake I'd want. Although the shimano RS685 (mechanical 11sp levers + hydro disc) is looking good for availability in the next few months.

Shimano has a new mount standard in the works that will most likely facilitate a standardization of disc size and in turn easy wheel swaps which should sort the neutral support issue (if it is adopted en masse)

paris roubaix (and maybe flanders?) are set to be test events for a road disc trial in 2016, if that goes smoothly than I'm sure it won't be long until they are adopted by the pro teams

if you wait another year you'll surely have more options and things -might- be more standardized. but like i said, id have no problem adopting it now.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:28 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Posts: 73
I think it will be an OK from UCI. This helps the industry. It is loads of money involved in this.
You basically need a new bike.
There will always be two sides to this.
The only two good things i see, you will never wear out a carbon wheelset, it brakes better in wet.
Weight is negative, drag has been tested and it is not good.
I think even the pro riders are divided.

If brake tracks could be made very much better on regular rim brake wheels i would never buy disc brakes.
As is, i ordered a new frame and i went for the rim brake frameset.
I want low weight.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:41 pm 
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Formerly known as wassertreter

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Posts: 2013
Location: Pedal Square
dogg wrote:
paris roubaix (and maybe flanders?) are set to be test events for a road disc trial in 2016

That's amusing, got a reference? There are a few sharp turns, granted, but I can not think of any race that would require less braking than P-R.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:53 pm 
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But they may require lots of wheel changes due to punctures etc. Let's see how that works out :)

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:01 pm 
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HillRPete wrote:
There are a few sharp turns, granted, but I can not think of any race that would require less braking than P-R.
Well sure, when the weather is nice and the course is dry but when conditions are not so good, there tends to be a lot of crashes with riders braking to avoid downed riders.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:11 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:12 am
Posts: 226
I've been riding a road disc bike this year. I went the Chinese carbon route, since I couldn't stomach the prices of the offerings from the large (e.g. Specialized) and not-so-large (e.g. Foundry) sellers. I have a FM-166 and love it. The geometry is fairly racy in terms of the chainstay length (410mm) and HT angle (73). But HT is probably a bit longer than a race bike -- that's fine, but may limit options for some that want a very large saddle-to-bars drop.

If I were buying a new road bike now, I'd likely go for the CAAD10 disc. That bike looks awesome and should be plenty racy.

I raced this bike in a few USAC road races this season. The UCI rules are largely inapplicable to me (a beginner racer on the road scene in USA, none of the races I'll be doing in next couple/few years will be UCI races). I love having disc brakes when riding in the peleton; it's easy to feather brakes or apply them smoothly without worrying about brakes grabbing suddenly, etc. I imagine there is less jostling and erratic behavior in more experienced race groups, but these have certainly been nice in my situation.

Downsides? I imagine that wheel changes/neutral support could be an issue -- if you're not supplying your own wheels. Again, doesn't apply to me. The only races where I could benefit from a wheel change would be races where I would have to supply the spare wheels. I'm running clinchers, so I'm gonna change my own tube if I flat.

The flipside is that if you can build up different rims on the same hubs and have tool-/adjustment-free wheel changes. I do this on my commuter/cx bike, swapping out between wheels with tubeless cx tires for riding off road or road wheels for the normal paved-road commute.

I imagine the requirement to use the same hubs also goes away if you're using auto-centering hydro brakes (which all hydro brakes are AFAIK). I would not, however, discount mechanical disc brakes. The TRP Spyre brakes in particular are awesome. At least as good as very nice caliper brakes, and likely better. They certainly are better than other caliper brakes I have used, both in terms of power and most significantly modulation and stopping consistency. And obviously you can use whatever mechanical-brake grouppo you like best. Sure, eventually I'll put hydros on here, but my Sram Force + TRP Spyre setup is really nice so the hydros are not a priority.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:53 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:37 am
Posts: 270
HillRPete wrote:
dogg wrote:
paris roubaix (and maybe flanders?) are set to be test events for a road disc trial in 2016

That's amusing, got a reference? There are a few sharp turns, granted, but I can not think of any race that would require less braking than P-R.


well like Calnago said, sure not much braking, but lots of wheel changes. google for a reference, i can't be bothered


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:41 pm 
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since I am not a racer or racer wannabe, I chose the disc brake hydraulic. Safety and technology should not be the basis for this conversation. Legal or not, Disc represent what needs to happen for cycling. Rim brakes and carbon rims, are ineffective in the rain. I would ride discs brakes all day long. I have electronic di2 with the disc, and what a setup. How can bikes come from being manufactured in someone's garage to having Ferrari test materials for bike. Everybody should be opened to this debate since it is great for cycling. To constantly apply the thought since they are not UCI legal, they are not worthy of its place in cycling is foolish. I ride for fun, fitness and the cool bikes. I do get irritated from everyone who thinks the aero shortfalls are significant, even on the weekend rides with pals. Unless you are testing in an air tunnel, thinking about the aero of the bike is minutia. How to take 10 seconds off my 1 hour ride is not a concern I challenge myself with. I think more of pedal stroke, breathing, upper body position, and the overall enjoyment of being on the bike. Rim brakes seem like a product of days gone by. I still love my Bottecchia with all campy Chorus. But carbon needs to be outfitted with the most up to date products. How many leather helmets do you see in the TDF?


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Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:41 pm 


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