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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:55 pm 
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And they are pretty much MTBs with drop
Bars.. Not to mention a lot of pro cross riders don't use disks cause there is nothing to be gained by having brakes that lock up if you look at the lever.
Also I mean.... Things that move with haste and purpose.. You put some disk on a fully ridged DH bike and see how much fun it is..
Or a 250kph motorcycle..
Yea... Na...

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:20 pm 
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"And they are pretty much MTBs with drop" uhhh what?? cross bikes are wayyy closer to a road bike than mtb, narrow tires, 700c wheels, steep(er) frame angles, drop bars, road componentry....

discs are a pretty big advantage in certain conditions too, in the worlds this past season there was an event where riders with cantis were ending up on the ground/wrong side of the barriers at the bottom of a descent while those on discs were clearing the section with ease.

modulation on discs is extremely better than that of rim/caliper brakes too, i have no idea how you can say thats marketing BS, I'm just going assume you've never ridden a bike with hydro discs

and as far as road disc goes, who cares? even if the uci does "legalize" disc brakes no one is going to be forcing you to ride them...unless you ride for a pro team, in which case you really don't have much room to complain considering you get paid and bathed in free merch to ride your bike.

typical retrogrouch attitude from those who think its going be some horrible development that ruins road bikes for good. yeah, I'm sure road calipers will just disappear...


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Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:20 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:30 pm 
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Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
Discs are not a safety problem. The edges are not sharp and serrated like chain rings. They're protected by the wheel so they're unlikely to come in contact with flesh during a crash.

Discs are legal in UCI CX racing. I've seen plenty of discs being used in UCI pro races, usually in muddy races where rim brakes don't work well. That's the same reason that discs are used on MTBs.

Discs are legal in USAC amateur road races- we don't follow UCI regs except for national championship and pro races. This has been stated in emails on the USAC officials mailing list. But I've yet to see a disc brake equipped bike in a local race. I'm in a district with a lot of well off masters racers. If discs were a competitive advantage I think I'd be seeing some.

I remain unconvinced that the disc braked road bikes will decelerate significantly better than good dry rim brakes. I'd like to see actual measurements on this instead of anecdote and hyperbole. Perhaps VeloNews could do some braking distance tests.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:57 pm 
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I am all for improvements in braking;
But seriously....I have never been in any race where braking ability made any difference at all, short of actually having the brakes fail or something, which I have never seen either. The current generation of brakes, and all prior generations I can think of, have had plenty of power to lock up any wheel at any time. So the question would seem to me to be about the fine points of modulation, weight, and rim wear.
As they seem now, I'm not the least bit interested in disk brakes; but on the other hand, if manufacturers started making them available at reasonable price, and it didn't create a weight penalty, I would accept them.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:06 pm 
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I must say that I have some miles on Shimano hydro road and there are a lot of myths about the follies of disc for the road being shared here. They do modulate much better than my Super Record caliper brakes. It's not BS. I doubt detractors have actually tried them. The effort is less so my hands have a better feel for the power being applied. Are braking distances in dry conditions reduced? I think so. I purposely did some late braking at the bottom of a few descents and I felt much more confident reeling in the bike. Just because both systems can bring the front wheel to lockup doesn't mean they are both as easy to reach that limit.

I'll take my disc bike on mountainous descents over any caliper brake setup now that I've tried both. I don't care about the extra weigh since I'm not being paid to race. I'm glad I don't have to live under UCL rules for my bikes.

I understand some of the cons against having pros on disc bikes, but not some of the statements here that are just flat out wrong. You really need to try them before you can have a valid opinion on hydro disc brakes.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:12 pm 
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Rick wrote:
I am all for improvements in braking;
But seriously....I have never been in any race where braking ability made any difference at all, short of actually having the brakes fail or something, which I have never seen either.


I've seen more than a few races decided on the final descent. I can't say positively that better brakes would change the outcome. I can say that I would want disc brakes if I were trying to eek out every second. I just don't know what the overall advantage/penalty of having them for the entire race would be when you factor weight and aero. I do think that if the UCI keeps the minimum weight rule in effect and allows them it would be fairly easy for a bike to reach the weight limit with disc brakes. That only leaves the aerodynamic disadvantages if they are indeed significant.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:48 pm 
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Agree with ergott's comments-I have small hands and discs would definitely be more comfortable on long/steep descents.

Also, it would end the carbon clincher debate and lead to lighter carbon wheels. Not sure if this would offset the weight/aero penalty, time will tell.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:18 pm 
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thirstygreek wrote:
solarider wrote:
Has anybody yet done an aerodynamic test of rim vs disc?


http://road.cc/content/feature/83327-di ... -more-aero



Just a little thought...

Aero testing of a bike in a wind tunnel without a rider is like aero testing of a car in a wind tunnel without it's roof on. A rider makes a huge difference in the aero of the bike, not just an additional Cd you add to the bike. The behavior of the air as it travels around the front fork may be completely different when there's a leg 18" behind it churning up all kinds of drag.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:40 am 
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micky wrote:
Will disc brakes make me go faster on flat routes or uphill?
I mean serious gain on time or save on energy.


Will any brakes help you go faster uphill or on flats? The question for me isn't "why disc?", but "why not disc?". It is better braking technology, so why would you choose rim brakes? Perhaps aerodynamics in time trials would be a situation where rim brakes saved enough time to be worth it.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:59 am 
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Disc brakes make me more interested in (full) carbon clinchers.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:39 am 
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sugarkane wrote:
They have more power that isn't an issue but the mythical modulation.. Is rubbish ITs marking bullshit.


I think you have it backwards. They don't necessarily provide more power; everyone agrees they can lock a wheel with any brake. It's the delivery of the power. But which road disc brakes were you using that did not provide superior modulation? (Have you ridden /any/ bike with disc brakes?)

sugarkane wrote:
And FYI they won't make you faster in corners.. 'Carrying more speed longer through corners' that's a matter of skills, balls, tires and pressure. Things disks won't bring to the table.


Yeah, that's why I was reporting that this was the alleged value, not something I can attest first-hand. Certainly I feel a lot more confident descending on disc brakes, but I'm not a good enough descender to comment on whether I can shave seconds off a downhill, so I was just taking for granted these claims by the numerous folks in the industry reviewing disc-brake setups. Not saying they are all going to be unbiased [or even original], but it's a claim being made by folks that at least pretend to know what they're talking about.

sugarkane wrote:
They make sense on a commuter bike or poor weather training machine but you sum this up your self with the statement ' I am not a road racer....'


Just because I'm not a road racer doesn't mean I don't ride road bikes -- or even race them on occasion. The idea that one can't comment on road bikes if you don't race is a little daft; most people that own road bikes don't race them.

But I am curious, since obviously you are a road racer, what is the thing that makes you *not* want disc brakes? I mean, assuming all things are equal and you don't have a stockpile of rim-brake wheels and frames. (After all, this discussion isn't about whether to force everyone to convert to discs, but simply the idea that they should be allowed in races.) I have never heard anyone say how much they prefer how rim-brakes stop the bike. Disc brakes do add a little weight. But I assume that's not a problem for racers, because the UCI weight limit is still plenty high to have a disc-brake build. They arguably make the bike a little less aero. Maybe that's the real objection? Or is it heel clearance with wider rear hub spacing? But seriously, trying to salvage something constructive here, why wouldn't you, as a road racer, choose a disc-brake bike if you were starting from scratch [and they were legal]?

sugarkane wrote:
1 point worth considering.. Every single racing machine worth a mention in the world right now using disk brakes has suspension... Some thing I don't want on my 5kg roadie :smartass:


One other point worth considering -- obviously ignoring CX bikes -- I suspect maybe the reason you're not seeing more disc-brake road racing bikes is because THEY'RE NOT UCI LEGAL. Hence the thread title. Just a hunch, though. ;-)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:55 am 
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eric wrote:
Discs are legal in USAC amateur road races- we don't follow UCI regs except for national championship and pro races. This has been stated in emails on the USAC officials mailing list. But I've yet to see a disc brake equipped bike in a local race. I'm in a district with a lot of well off masters racers. If discs were a competitive advantage I think I'd be seeing some.


I think they're just too new and too damn expensive (at least for racing). And the technology is a bit of a commitment -- people probably waiting to see that this is catching on with wheel mfrs etc. before they make the switch. I don't see any [other] disc-brake bikes on group rides either -- except for the shop ride where Specialized was offering disc-brake demo bikes. I think the cost is really ridiculous right now. I remember seeing a $5,000 price tag hanging from a mechanical disc-brake Specialized model last year; that is crazy.

Despite obviously preferring disc brakes, I also wouldn't imagine that there's a big advantage in a road race -- especially a crit race. I think of it in as analogous to electronic shifting; it isn't strictly necessary and it might save you a little time in certain situations, but it's more about just offering an improved interface to the bicycle. Maybe better (less) maintenance, etc. (Arguably there is also a safety component with the disc brakes that may not fit in the analogy.) I like my mechanical shifting just fine, but I believe people when they say that once you try electronic you won't want to go back.


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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 3:25 am 
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micky wrote:
Will disc brakes make me go faster on flat routes or uphill?
I mean serious gain on time or save on energy.


Currently...NO

But I give it a little bit if time and rim designs will evolve to have a lower overall weight and higher overall aerodynamic performance with discs without the need for the strength or flats of the brake track. Also the road brake calipers/rotors will improve in both weight and aerodynamics.

Plus whatever your belief
In sprung vs. unsprung weight. A disc wheel and a rim wheel of the same weight will spin up at different rates because of where the weight is located (rim vs.hub).

However, As of today I don't know of any disc wheels besides one ofs with compromises that can compete with the top shelf road race wheels.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 5:06 am 
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meat slicer in a crash.


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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 7:28 am 
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Then your bike should be ridden with a belt drive and not chain drive in that case ?


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Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 7:28 am 


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