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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:28 am 
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bura wrote:
pushstart wrote:
Fact is that we have an alternative brake system for discs which works.
Unless you want to change to belt driven "safer" systems and want to avoid chain rings.No?
So think twice before parroting others or amuse yourself about well backed safety concerns which are concerns for ADDITIONAL safety risks not excluding or minimizing current safety risks.


I am not entirely sure what you are trying to say, but as for safety concerns, what about the improved safety afforded by a better braking system? Do the demonstrable benefits in breaking outweigh these hypothetical risks to the peleton? I think safety is a key motivation for this technology.


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Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:28 am 


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:55 am 
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Disc brakes stop you more reliably, with more modulation, more consistently and under more conditions.

What's not to like?

It will mean a transition period where people with expensive rim brake kit will have to bite the bullet and invest in new wheels, frame and forks. I can't help thinking that much of the opposition ultimately comes from this source. By virtue of being active on this forum, we probably all have a very expensive, possibly very extensive collection of light weight rim brake equipped bikes. Most will have been built from the ground up using carefully picked individual parts. The prospect of moving to discs would mean an expensive investment, and fractionally more weight and aerodynamic drag. Not attractive I know, but not a show stopper when considering moving to discs.

The arguments over safety are not valid. I lost my thumb in a race after getting my fingers caught in a spinning wheel equipped with bladed spokes. And, as has been said already, chainrings aren't exactly flesh-friendly in the event of a crash. The added risk of a small disc rotor is not something worse considering vs the improvement in safety of braking that discs offer.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:51 am 
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I am not arguing that discs do not offer a better braking power and modulation.
What I tried to explain is that in no other branch of cycling racing you have to be that much concerned about an additional safety risk by discs compared with road peleton racing crash situations.
If others think that this is not valid and much more of importance the UCI thinks that the gain by using disc brakes is much more significant than the "small" added risks , we will have to wait for the first crash and the resulting wound reports to argue further.
I may have done a mistake by trying to warn others or by trying to explain that I am right.
This certainly was wrong and I will listen more to Mr.Shakespeare 's wise words through King Lear and will not repeat my mistake in future.
Carpe diem.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:18 pm 
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pushstart wrote:
I also am positive that 10 years from now this debate will seem pretty silly. Of course there are still folks that swear by downtube shifters, so I am sure rim brakes won't completely disappear anytime soon.
You young whipper-snappers. I can't bring myself to using those new-fangled front derailleur down tube shifters. You never know if the cable is going to break. Hand operated levers are the only reliable way to go.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:58 pm 
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A perfect leadout by PS, and HT2 applies the pressure.... nudging ahead... and KEEPS ON PULLING AWAY! I CANNOT BELIEVE WHAT I'M SEEING!!!!! INCREDIBLE!!!

AND HE CROSSES THE LINE WITH HIS RIVALS SEEN AS DISTANT SILHOUETTES!!!!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:57 pm 
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Are you Phil Ligget?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:36 pm 
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solarider wrote:
Has anybody yet done an aerodynamic test of rim vs disc?


http://road.cc/content/feature/83327-di ... -more-aero


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:18 am 
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eric wrote:
I doubt they'll ever be mandatory but they'll most likely be allowed by the UCI in the next few years.
The braking difference between riders of equal skill on rim brakes vs discs will be less than the difference due to differences in skill alone.


Totally disagree, I've been riding in a disc road bike for about 9 months and I think that either everybody or nobody needs them, they really change the game in stopping power in all conditions.

I can easily make a pile up if I hit the brakes hard in a pace line.

That's part of the reason I bought this bike, the extra power for a beater to ride when the weather sucks and in unfamiliar groups with yahoos, like today on my normal Sunday-roubaix there was a 10,000 idiot charity ride hat overlapped about 5 miles of our route. When you pass 300lb people going 13 mph on a tri bike on their aero bars, and you call out "on your left" they tend to look back, shift into their big ring and pedal hard at 30RPM to not get passed bringing their speed to 14.5 all the while veer into your lane... Not to mention the yahoo that decided to pull off the road to the left into the passing lane and into incoming traffic when I called out "car back" the guy nearly got killed...


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:20 am 
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mjduct--I commute on 7800 calipers/salmon coolstops and aluminum wheels. I have all these forms of crazy you've described. My rate limiter is always getting my weight back so I don't lock up my front wheel. How does a disc improve this situation? Wet, yes, I know. But there both tire traction and breaking are compromised (and the salmons tend to bite in pretty quick if you grab a handful of lever in an emergency). Fade/heat is pretty rare, too, but that has much more to do with my routes than breaks themselves.

You may argue that the 7800 calipers are some of the best made ever (I am not here to disagree) but I've ridden plenty of other bikes with plenty of other caliper/pads. Admittedly always on aluminum rims. Break performance and modulation is always playing second/third/fifth fiddle to tire grip.

Places where mud/crap/etc are the norm, discs make a lot of sense. They also tend to be a lot slower, where drag is markedly less. That's rarely the road, and only under specific circumstances. The drag cost versus braking benefit makes them a non-starter for most road applications.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:55 am 
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Having a permanent scar from being cut open by a flyinf 53 tooth chainring in a big crash, I shudder to think about the potential damage those SHARP, HOT , FAST SPINNING discs could cause to human flesh in a peloton pileup. There are potential safety issues there.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:47 am 
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mjduct wrote:
I can easily make a pile up if I hit the brakes hard in a pace line.
:lol: And? I can cause a major pile up by lightly tapping my rim brakes in a pace line. That's why i don't do it.

So what difference do discs make to a racing bike (not a beater, or training bike, a race bike)

Oh yeah, profit margin, i forgot.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:47 am 
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mattr wrote:
So what difference do discs make to a racing bike (not a beater, or training bike, a race bike)

Oh yeah, profit margin, i forgot.


Well, certainly profit margin is driving this but there is a valid argument at the core. I am not a road racer, but the argument for disc brakes is that you can brake later in turns -- carrying more speed for longer. Thanks to better modulation and consistency.

I love my disc brake road bike. I certainly am convinced this is better braking. Especially with carbon rims (which seems like the only valid comparison when talking about road racing).


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:07 pm 
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Will disc brakes make me go faster on flat routes or uphill?
I mean serious gain on time or save on energy.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:49 pm 
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pushstart wrote:
mattr wrote:
So what difference do discs make to a racing bike (not a beater, or training bike, a race bike)

Oh yeah, profit margin, i forgot.


Well, certainly profit margin is driving this but there is a valid argument at the core. I am not a road racer, but the argument for disc brakes is that you can brake later in turns -- carrying more speed for longer. Thanks to better modulation and consistency.

I love my disc brake road bike. I certainly am convinced this is better braking. Especially with carbon rims (which seems like the only valid comparison when talking about road racing).


They have more power that isn't an issue but the mythical modulation.. Is rubbish ITs marking bullshit.
And FYI they won't make you faster in corners.. 'Carrying more speed longer through corners' that's a matter of skills, balls, tires and pressure. Things disks won't bring to the table.

They make sense on a commuter bike or poor weather training machine but you sum this up your self with the statement ' I am not a road racer....'
One day they will be the way but banging a set of Mtb hydros on a roady and proclaiming the future is not the way forward.. There are so many different factors that need to be considered to make 'road disks' truly workable and to bring in real world performance gains.. 1 point worth considering.. Every single racing machine worth a mention in the world right now using disk brakes has suspension... Some thing I don't want on my 5kg roadie :smartass:

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Last edited by sugarkane on Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:50 pm 
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sugarkane wrote:
Every single racing machine work a mention in the world right now using disk brakes has suspension...
Erm, some CX bikes with discs have been raced, a bit....... :wink:


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Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:50 pm 


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