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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:51 am 
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Bridgeman wrote:
For those who have moved on from Speedplay to other pedals I am wondering how the increase in stack height has effected your position?

This is the main reason why I went to Speedplay. The lowered cg helped in numerous respects.

When I went from speedplay to DA I did not change anything else, even though you "should" in theory. I suspected that my saddle was a bit too high anyway, so when I went to DA I just left it the same. I think that there is supposed to be a 2mm difference, but that is just from memory. Anyway, they felt fine so I just rode them that way. When I went BACK to speedplay, I felt like my leg was a little too extended so I did drop the saddler ~1.5mm. Either way it was just barely enough to be noticeable. I didn't change the bars or setback in either case, but those things were "evolving" a few mm on their own independently of pedal changes.
Frankly, I wouldn't switch to speedplay just to get lower stack height. It doesn't seem like a big enough deal one way or another to me.
To me, the features are free float and ease of entry. But now that I reflect on the whole thing I remember that I did scrape my Dura Ace pedals twice in corners when I had NEVER scraped a speedplay, an I had developed the habit of not even thinking about it. You can pedal through turns at full speed on SP, bu you need to give the pedal strokes a little bit of thought when using DA.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:02 am 
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And just because it is fun to investigate these things, let's ask the only really important question: "What would Jens ride?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pv2CTt0PUhM

:up:


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Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:02 am 


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:21 am 
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Rick wrote:
When I went from speedplay to DA I did not change anything else, even though you "should" in theory. I suspected that my saddle was a bit too high anyway, so when I went to DA I just left it the same. I think that there is supposed to be a 2mm difference, but that is just from memory. Anyway, they felt fine so I just rode them that way. When I went BACK to speedplay, I felt like my leg was a little too extended so I did drop the saddler ~1.5mm. Either way it was just barely enough to be noticeable. I didn't change the bars or setback in either case, but those things were "evolving" a few mm on their own independently of pedal changes.

Puts your earlier post

viewtopic.php?p=1037945#p1037945

in much better context...


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 12:59 pm 
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Maybe they have all realised that Time RSX are still the ultimate pedal.................... :D


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:23 pm 
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Rick wrote:
But it is actually my personal experience that speedplay users are going to generally be the fastest off the line. Don't believe me...go enter a criterium. Or talk to someone who has.


So you started off with "always" and now use "generally" ? That's a difference. And having raced in criteriums, it doesn't matter who is off the line first, so why bring it up?

Quote:
Yes....all products break. So what is your issue with speedplay ? My point is that EVERY pedal has a percentage of problems. That doesn't justify your rantings. have YOU actually used speedplay ?


I brought it up in response to your original retort. I have no idea why you brought up product breaking at all, since I never brought it up as a point. But, you did. So I replied. Now you have an issue with my reply?

And yes, I have used Speedplay many, many years ago. And, if you did in fact read anything, I still recommend Speedplay for some people based on their needs. However, as I stated before, there are plenty of options out there and one brand is not the be-all and end-all of pedals - and yes we all have opinions - which goes back to the original point of this thread. Why are pros abandoning speedplays?
"Because they are crap" <--- My opinion
"i'm angry because I love my speedplays!!! and you're wrong!!!" <--- you
"Here is why I believe they are crap" <--- my response
... and the discussion continued since then.

Quote:
Also, I didn't admit that I HAVE to carry cleat covers. I said I FINALLY got some. For both my speedplays AND MY DURA ACES.
I just can't understand why you have such an issue that yoiu are willing to deliberately twist my words.


It's not a twist of words, Rick. How about this: Why do you carry cleat covers? Why did you finally get a pair?

Quote:
Work on your reading comprehension. I made no "claim" about speedplay stack height. I posted the actual value. It just so happens that it is lower than DA, Look, or Time. You found a lower one. Congratulations.


Again, why? Why did you bring it up? What were you trying to prove? That it was lower?
You brought it up because I brought up the issue of the adapter increasing the stack height of the Speedplay pedal system, which negated its claim of lowest stack height.
So then you retort with a number. So I replied with other examples, which you agreed with, of pedal systems which have lower stack heights without an adapter!
And now you're upset?

Can you work on your comprehension of the discussion?

Quote:
If it is a "discussion" I will gladly continue to post the facts and my experience with speedplays. If you are going to be calling people "suckers" and challenging us to "bring it on" then you can just stew in your own feces.


Keep trying there, buddy. The 'suckers' term, if you go back and read, is pointing back to marketing and belief in a product. Here, let me reqoute it for you:
"People will buy anything if a pro uses that product while winning. There's a sucker born every minute." It applies to everyone. It applies to the latest Nike shoes worn by basketball players. It applies to football shoes worn by Messi. It applies to your video of Jens Voigt, a sponsored rider who uses product-repping as part of his income to support his family (it's a job, just like any other) making a statement about a product. It applies to a sport drink being poured on top of the winning coach at the championship game. It applies to all forms of sports entertainment and product marketing. It applies to a drivetrain brand claiming podium victories. It applies to shoes, wheels, frames... everything and anything that wants you as a consumer to associate their product with the winning results of an athlete. This isn't to say that the product did or did not help the athlete achieve victory, but it is to say that the intention of the brand is for you, as a consumer to solely associate their achievement with the claimed qualities of said product. People who believe that association - which there are obviously plenty of - are suckers.

Seriously man, get a sense of perspective on how the business & entertainment world works and your role, as a consumer, in the game.

Quote:
Some may consider your posts crap......just sayin'.


Kettle black, Rick.

Quote:
So, basically....they are like every other sports product and you have no real knowledge about them at all.


I can safely say that I know a fair bit more than you. :wink:

Please, continue. :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:54 am 
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prendrefeu wrote:
I can safely say that I know a fair bit more than you. :wink:

Please, continue. :lol:

:roll:
,
,
,
,

If anyone has any questions about speedplays, I will be happy to post my experience. I have run the "original design" (pre-X series), X-series, Zeroes, and I am actually riding the Light-Actions now. I have no connection with speedplay whatsoever. I just used the products for a long time and so I obviously think they work pretty well.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:32 am 
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Take this debate to PM please guys.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:59 pm 
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What annoys me about SP, is that the bearings er really thight. If they're not lubed, you will end up with a uselss pedal 50K from home. Or i did. And I prefer bearings rolling smooth, like Keo's. Only other system I would like, is the Shimano DA 9000.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:04 pm 
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bombertodd wrote:
I used to play professional golf, and I would 100% agree with this statement. I used to be obsessed with golf equipment when I was an amatuer and in college. After playing professional golf for a few years I could care less about my equipment's specs or looks. If it worked and some company paid me the dough I stuck it in my bag. After a few years of trying to pay the mortgage playing golf it really lost it's fun and appeal that I had before I was a pro. It really is a job and it sucks the fun out of it. I've been out the game for years and it still hasn't interested me much. I still play with some friends/family from time to time but it's nowhere near as fun as it was in the amatuer ranks. If pro cyclists have this same feeling I'm sure they are not spending money on bike parts when retired. As you mentioned pro's ride their bikes they kept, my golf clubs in my bag are the clubs I kept too. Why spend money on something I'm not passionate about?
Question, and maybe we can guess the answer in your particular case given that you're on this board: Professional athletes in many sports play golf for relaxation. What do professional golfers do for relaxation? And I'm not talking about relaxation of the horizontal variety.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:10 pm 
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The one thing that Speedplays have that I haven't seen anywhere else is non-recentering float. In other words float without any spring recentering action. For me, with a bad knee, this is critical. On other pedals that have float but have spring pressure that tries to return the cleat to neutral I always end up with knee pain no matter how much I fiddle with the cleat angle.. So, after trying Time, Shimano, and Look I switched to Speedplay 20 years ago and have never had a problem since.

On the other issues- I have never had a Speedplay pedal break or wear out in 20 years. I replace the cleats about once a year. I never lubricate them or have any trouble clipping in. I also don't walk on dirt a lot but I don't avoid it either.

People seem to like bashing the company for their heavy-handed tactics and I don't like that behavior either. However, for me the product just works.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:08 pm 
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My Speedplay cleats foul all of the time with dirt/rocks/etc. I am going to switch to Look....hopefully I get on with them.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:41 pm 
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djwalker wrote:
Speedplay I replace the cleats about once a year. I never lubricate them or have any trouble clipping in.


Wow. Speedplay cleats are expensive. Nashbar sells the Speedplay cleats for $40. Nashbar's 20% off coupon code does not apply to Speedplay. Shimano SPD and SPD-SL are $22-23. Look Keo cleats are $25 or $35. Its been many many years since I replaced my SPD-SL cleats. Once a year? I'd be looking for a new pedal system yesterday. Wow.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:50 pm 
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RussellS, if $20 per year is a deal breaker for you it may be time to find another hobby. :smartass: A crash, running over road debris and shredding a tire, breaking a helmet….

Maybe that's why "all the pros are abandoning SP pedals" :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:26 pm 
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djwalker wrote:
The one thing that Speedplays have that I haven't seen anywhere else is non-recentering float.


Bebop has that.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:55 pm 
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prendrefeu wrote:
djwalker wrote:
The one thing that Speedplays have that I haven't seen anywhere else is non-recentering float.


Bebop has that.


As do Keywins

In a search for free and non-centering float I moved from SPD-SL's to Speedplays. I very much liked the feel of the speedplays but I caught a case of the "dreaded speedplay lateral rock" and found I'd managed to wear a Zero Ti pedal body to the point that new cleats made no difference within 9 months. I was fairly unimpressed - cleat wear is one thing, but wear of the pedal within that time frame was not acceptable; and its one thing having a pedal that's fully rebuildable, but another when the rebuild kit costs as much as a new pedal from a competitor. I also found getting into the speedplays no better than the SPD-SL's, I seemed to have a knack of stepping on the pedal in exactly the right place to that it would jam in the cleat at an angle rather than clip in!

Anyway I moved back to DA SPD-SL's which have been faultless, but lack the free and non-centering flat. So I've a pair of Keywins CrMo Carbons a few weeks old now. So far so good - entry is a bit fiddly compared to DA or SP, but once in they have a similar feel to speedplay, I'm just hoping with the reliability of Dura-Ace!

jon


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Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:55 pm 


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