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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:20 pm
Posts: 545
Location: Tokyo
Cipollini's frameset/fork made by ZMM Compositi
Merckx's monoque AXM, semi monocoque EXM was previously made by the same company as well.

http://www.zmmcompositi.it/flash/video_lg.php

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:25 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 1:16 pm
Posts: 775
Location: muc
DMF wrote:
Krull, I think you might be mixing up the products design (superficial appearance) with production design (the design of the construction). There are obviously huge differences between high and low end here. You don't get an X-Ray scan of every separate layer of carbon cloth like with the MacLaren edition Venge, when you buy a Hong-Fu...

I'm not arguing that it matters, I'm just giving you the facts so you can make your own informed choice.

Hi,
Thanks for information, you are right, i mixed this up. But nevertheless: the maclaren is an exception (isnt it extremly limited and expensive)? never heard of x-ray-scans with any other frame.
But on topic: simplon, beone and bergamont all come from the same factory.

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sorry vor mai bed englisch!


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:28 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:57 pm
Posts: 4218
Location: Vicenza
maverick_1 wrote:
Cipollini's frameset/fork made by ZMM Compositi
Merckx's monoque AXM, semi monocoque EXM was previously made by the same company as well.

http://www.zmmcompositi.it/flash/video_lg.php


I was aware of them buying the tubes in there but didnt know they were also actually doing the frames.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:08 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:14 am
Posts: 1036
Location: Sweden
Krull, the MacLaren is an extreme example but not an exception. There is a whole 'shade of greys' from the simplest 12k open moulds to the most sofisticated in-house Textreme creations. It's not a matter of a few extremes, when you look below the surface you'll find there is a whole range that fills every void between these two extremes.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:10 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:27 pm
Posts: 551
Engineers are familiar with a term called design-for-manufacturing. basically, it means, you got to bear in mind how to actually MAKE the thing you're actually designing.

Designing an awesome product with the lowest weight, best stiffness and all the various shits and giggles is good, but you need a production engineer on your design team, as well as a production floor manager to get the product out the factory floor. some designs may simply not be feasible for mass production; e.g. too time/cost intensive, limitations of existing factory machinery , etc. which is not going to be a successful bike product. One reason why you pay extra for custom is the ability to tune various things- the layup, the geometry, the rakes and angles, which arent feasible to do in a production line. the best deisng can also be spoiled if you don't have the skill, expertise or facillities to pull it off. manufacturing, especially high quality components, is not the simple slap bang job alot of uninitiated people think it is.

So basically, you need a good design team AND a good factory to get a good product. which is why Giant is going to rule the world of bike manufacturing sooner rather than later.


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