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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:06 pm 
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Posts: 349
It strikes me from seeing a few posted frame weights that there is quite a lot of variation in the weights of Foil frames, and that the weight ranges of HMX and HMF ones may even overlap at their extremes, especially for HMF frames with lighter matt paint finishes and HMX ones with gloss finishes. I also wonder if the frame weights have changed over time as Scott has possibly tweaked the layup to make them less harsh (I seem to remember reading that the very earliest ones were more harsh/stiff).

I'd be interested to hear some more real-life weights to increase the available sample. It would be good to know (1) frame model, year, and size, e.g. Foil 15, 2013, M/54 (2) HMX or HMF carbon (3) gloss paint or matt paint (4) Weight of frame without seatpost, bottom bracket or BB cups, derailleur hanger & hanger bolts, BB cable guide, cable stops, seat bolt and bottle cage bolts, but with the top press-fit headset cup, which comes pre-fitted and is not something most people will want to remove. If you only know the weight with some or all of these things, you can subtract them - derailleur hanger and bolts = 12g, BB cable guide = 7g, seat bolt = 21g (although this is unlikely to be installed without the seatpost..), cable stops = 4g, stock bottle cage bolts = 17g. (I think the Shimano BB which sometimes comes pre-installed is about 75g, but I'm not certain about that) (5) Fork weight uncut if known (without bung).

Here's mine:

Foil Team Issue, 2013, M/54
HMX
Gloss finish
Frame 926g
Fork (uncut) 365g

I know that at least one person on this forum has posted a near-identical weight for an HMF frame, although with matt paint (although most weights for HMF frames I have seen have been quite a lot higher).


Last edited by neeb on Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:40 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:29 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:06 am
Posts: 214
I have a 49cm HMX Team Issue (the black and red one). I weighed it 976 including Shimano BB and other frame attachments. Subtracting out the odds and ends per your posted weights ant comes out to 878. Fork is 352 including the compression plug.

_________________
Scott Foil Team Issue, Cervelo R3, Strong Titanium


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Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:29 am 


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:09 pm
Posts: 720
Good one...well, if I can get a scale, I will have a 56cm Team Edition, and a Foil 15 soon at the same time.

Will try to get some weights and post them up.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:37 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:19 pm
Posts: 349
eric01 - 878 vs 926 sounds like a vaguely plausible difference for a size 49 vs size 54, thanks for that.

Zigmeister - should be interesting, will these be the new 2014 models? Incidentally, you can weigh a frame very accurately just using a cheap set of digital kitchen scales, you just need to find a way to balance it. I managed to stick the headtube at a slight angle into a tupperware box and then balance that on the scales (after zeroing the scales with the box alone).


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:09 pm
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Frame a hassle to weigh, but the 2013 Foil 15 54cm comes in at these numbers:

Frame only with chain catcher: 1002-1014g. Hard to balance as mentioned.
Fork uncut: 396g
Rear hanger w/ screws: 13g
Top cap w/screw: 10g
Plug: 23g
Carbon HT fork top cover/spacer: 16g
Headset top/bottom bearings w/wedge piece: 51g
Seat post wedge w/bolt: 23g
Seat post w/seat mount hardware: 213g

I will weigh my 2012 Foil Team, 56cm, when I return from vacation and get it stripped down.

Then get a total weight going from the Team Sram build to the Foil 15 Shimano 9070 builds. Wheels, bars, stem, cranks, pedals are being swapped along with brakes to the Di2 setup. Im thinking is will be pretty close. The current Foil Team total with everything including Garmin is 15.4lbs. Will post final build soon.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:18 pm 
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Brilliant, really useful data, thanks!

The 15 has a sort of matt paint job, doesn't it?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:07 am 
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Yes. Team Red/black is a gloss paint which adds some weight compared to the Premium matte version, which the 15 also has. Guess the Di2 versions are matte, and all other mechanicals are gloss. Hence why I suspect the weights will be not much different due to the smaller frame size, matte paint and such in the end.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:09 pm
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2012 Team 56cm frame with Sram Gxp pressfit bearings and rear hanger installed.

1023gms

-94gms for BB
-13gms for hangar

916gms w/chain catcher

Got the new groupset Shimano 9070 Di2 installed, and all other components moved over.

I was at 15.4lbs approx with Sram Red and Team Frame.

15.7lbs now with Foil 15 and 9070 Di2. This includes speedplay pedals, Garmin 500, Quarq Riken S975, carbon cages etc.

This makes sense, the frame was about 100gms heavier, along with another 200gms on the groupset over Sram Red.

Going to move to some Far/Near Brakes, should reduce a few ounces to replace my Red brakes. Otherwise, besides running some tubulars, really can't get any lighter. I really want to move over to a Felt AR1 frameset. Just waiting for more widespread availability when they hit the market.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:06 pm
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Location: NC, USA
I just received a 2012 Team Edition ( HMX ) in size XL ( 58 cm ). The stripped frame weighed 938g.

I can provide weights of other parts, if anyone is interested.

Roy


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:13 pm 
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Pretty consistent then. About 22gms more than the 56cm HMX Team the 58 is.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:18 am 
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Interesting stuff, thanks for the data.

Zigmeister wrote:
Pretty consistent then. About 22gms more than the 56cm HMX Team the 58 is.

Except my 2013 size 54 is 926, 10g more than your size 56. Based on the weights we have on this thread for a 49, 56 and 58 (all 2012 red & black models), the 54 should be round about 900g.

I have this theory that the 2013 team issue frames (black/white/green) are a little heavier than the 2012 red & black ones. I wonder if Scott tweaked the layup a little bit for 2013 (we know that they did between 2011 and 2012). The other reason that makes me think this is that you see a lot of reviews and comments saying that the Foil rides very harshly, but mine simply doesn't, it's stiff enough under power but no more harsh over bumps/rough surfaces than any other bike, and a recent test on the (HMF) Foil 40 in Tour Magazine gave it quite a good score for "comfort".


Last edited by neeb on Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:45 pm 
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You might be right on that thinking. Maybe they did some changes on the layup, or materials slightly.

The Scott site list weights actually now, 880gms. I assume they use a 54cm, could be a 56cm, they don't say though.

Plus, 20gms is really not much when you consider this carbon is all hand laid and setup. Thus, there will be some slight variances, nature of the product and human experience between people doing the work. 20gms is nothing.

Yeah, this Red/Black 2012 team frame is brutal stiff. Especially the front end. I switched to carbon bars to soften the ride. Seat is a little stiff also on the rear. With tubulars, the ride is real nice though.

The Foil 15 rides slightly less harsh on the front end, but I sense no flexing on the BB area or headset. So I'm guessing the actual carbon material is making a difference on the ride qualities for the HMX and HMF CF.

Maybe the pros said they need to fix the stiffness issue and they made the changes for Orica..haha...


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:08 pm 
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Zigmeister wrote:
Yeah, this Red/Black 2012 team frame is brutal stiff. Especially the front end. I switched to carbon bars to soften the ride. Seat is a little stiff also on the rear. With tubulars, the ride is real nice though.

The Foil 15 rides slightly less harsh on the front end, but I sense no flexing on the BB area or headset. So I'm guessing the actual carbon material is making a difference on the ride qualities for the HMX and HMF CF.

Or it could be the difference between the 2012 and 2013 models rather than between HMX and HMF (you said your 15 was 2013?) - there are plenty "brutally stiff" reports for the HMF models too.

My team issue isn't particularly harsh at the front end - I guess the seatpost is fairly stiff because it feels the same as the Thomson alu posts I run on my other bikes.

Zigmeister wrote:
The Scott site list weights actually now, 880gms. I assume they use a 54cm, could be a 56cm, they don't say though.

The listed weight was previously 840g I think, so if they have put it up that would also fit. Although it could just be a move towards a more realistic claimed weight without the actual weights having changed. Now that Scott have the Addict as their flagship weenie frame they might be less focused on weight for the foil from a marketing perspective.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:30 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:05 am
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Another data point.

2012. HMF, Size 52. 1070 g with bottom bracket. The BB is 70 grams, i think, so 1000 g from the frame.
Fork is 388 g.

Bike color is mostly white, which i'm told means it's on the heavier side.


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Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:30 am 


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:44 pm 
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Great, thanks!

echappist wrote:
Bike color is mostly white, which i'm told means it's on the heavier side.

Yup - actually, it's not impossible that the only reason the 2013 team issue frames seem a little heavier than the 2012 red & black ones is that they have a fairly extensive zone of white paint. It will be interesting to see some weights for the 2014 models, which have a lot more white!


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