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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:13 pm 
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That is good news... with a big fat "maybe" thrown in. For instance, take my ideal size which is a 61 Traditional. The headtube length is 195mm (without the cups). This is perfect for me. I can not only get the fit I want, but get a very nice looking build as well without having to put a bunch of spacers underneath the stem. The 60 currently comes with a 185mm headtube, and the 62 comes with a 202mm headtube. The lugs of the C59 are the key components of the frame, and are not an insignificant part of the manufacturing process. I'd say they are the most difficult part actually and really another feature which sets Colnago apart from a lot of others. So, here's the rub... if they offer incremental sizing in sloping (57s is what I would need in reference to their current geometries), would they have separate lugs for that specific size or just change an tube angle or tube length slightly, but use the same lug as is used in either the 56s or 58s. If the latter is the case, then it's a lame attempt to appease a lot of people who will be quite upset that incremental sizing is no longer offered.

We'll just have to wait and see. Still really don't like the move to pressfit BB, but that's another issue. Let's face it, what will really sell these things is the paint schemes... there are a lot of great bikes out there to choose from. Also, Colnago has probably more history in cycling than any other current frame manufacturer, with it's founder still alive and kicking, and like it or not, that counts for something to a lot of people, myself included. If it doesn't, and you consider the bike just a tool to do what you do, then there are a lot of tools to choose from that will do the job.

Ok, I rambled... and just saw @ianSWBB's latest post about the incremental sizing. So they now have a 58s AND a 60s. This may change my thinking a bit. I've always felt the current 58sloping frame was just a catchall for all the big guys that wouldn't fit anything smaller. So I'm glad to see they've added another large size or maybe made the jumps a little closer, like adding a cog in the middle of a 12-25 cassette. Won't know till I see the actual geometry charts. So, this is good. Truthfully, 1cm sizing is pretty close, and I like that they have it, but from strictly a business point of view, I get why it might be not worth it to keep that up. I can comfortably ride quite a range of Colnago sizes (60-63), depending on setup but for me I like the 61. You can really get the handling you like dialed with such incremental sizing. Proper fit can be achieved on almost anything, but handling is a function of your body type, riding style, and the actual geometry of the bicycle.

So, can't wait to see the new geo charts and paint schemes. I've no doubt it will be a fine bicycle from a construction standpoint. Strong and stable. Just let's see if it hits the emotional target.

And @ianSWBB, yes makes total sense that the "custom" geometry is just a scaling to an inbetween size. Don't know why anyone would want anything other than that really. Their geometry produces some of the finest riding bicycles in the world.

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Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:13 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:54 pm 
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Ian @ SWBB do you have a shop or showroom? Will you be stocking a C60 frame for demo or display? I live quite close to your web address and you seem to have a lot more info than my local Colnago dealer and also the supplier of my current C59. Would be very interested to see a frame when it becomes available?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:20 pm 
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@Calnago
Yes, it will be interesting to study the stock geometry charts when we get them
As a side note, we do a few made-to-measure frame options (Fondriest, Formigli, Scappa) and always try to steer customers down geometries that are tried and tested, rather than "making it up" - yes, Colnago has consistently produced great geometries over many years!

@Harmitc
All of our bikes are custom made to order - so we don't have a showroom where you can just pick off the shelf and walk away! - however, we always have a wide variety of frames/bikes at any one time - I expect we will have a steady flow of C60 over the next 6 months if you'd like to pop over to discuss further, then just let us know when - it's no problem!!

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:34 pm 
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Hi Ian, I didn't expect you to have a row of built up bikes, but even my local Colnago dealer which is one of the smaller ones has at least one C59/M10 so you can physically see and compare with other frames. Always better than just looking at a catalogue picture particularly when it's a new model. Are you an official UK Dealer as you don't appear on the Windwave website?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:50 pm 
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Press fit and no traditional top tube is pretty much a deal breaker for me to be honest, plus I'm a 57T rider and the even numbered sizes feels like colnago are giving me the finger. Sure I'll be able to special order an equivalent size but will everything be the same as I'm used to - HT length, angles etc or will it be a fudge using whatever's to hand? The C60 will have to be an absolute gem to not disappoint me given what I've heard so far to be honest. If not I'm just hoping they reintroduce the C59 as a historical piece like they do with the Master.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:53 pm 
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Calnago wrote:
And @ianSWBB, yes makes total sense that the "custom" geometry is just a scaling to an inbetween size. Don't know why anyone would want anything other than that really.
Ahh, maybe because the stock geometry STA is too steep to get the desired setback without going to extreme seatpost setback and clamp position on saddle rail? I'm guessing that changing STA is not allowed in the C60 custom program, but defer to ianSWBB to clarify. Unfortunately, there has been a trend in recent years to make STA very steep on smaller sized frames, and Colnago is among those trend followers.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:37 pm 
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@Harmitc - yes, we are an official Colnago Dealer - go onto the new Colnago website, go to the Dealers page and type in "Gloucester" - you will see we are about 10 miles South of Gloucester - yes we always have some Colnago for you to look at/test ride, but not to purchase and ride away the same day.
Also, have just checked the Windwave site - we are right in the centre of their home page!! - click on the marker just north of bristol!
:D

@Zakalwe - at the moment, we haven't heard that they are going to cease production of the C59 - so for the time being at least, they are planning to produce both models simultaneously

@HammerTime2 - correct, as far as we're aware, changing the STA is not going to be available within the C60 custom program

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:52 pm 
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Thanks! I'll have another look at the Windwave site! No idea why you didn't appear when I searched. As soon as you have a C60 regardless of size or colour could you email? I'd like to see one before placing an order.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:21 pm 
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ianSWBB wrote:
@Zakalwe - at the moment, we haven't heard that they are going to cease production of the C59 - so for the time being at least, they are planning to produce both models simultaneously


Someone started a thread on here about Colnago stopping taking orders of traditional C59's, no more lugs left apparently.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:53 pm 
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HammerTime2 wrote:
Calnago wrote:
And @ianSWBB, yes makes total sense that the "custom" geometry is just a scaling to an inbetween size. Don't know why anyone would want anything other than that really.
Ahh, maybe because the stock geometry STA is too steep to get the desired setback without going to extreme seatpost setback and clamp position on saddle rail? I'm guessing that changing STA is not allowed in the C60 custom program, but defer to ianSWBB to clarify. Unfortunately, there has been a trend in recent years to make STA very steep on smaller sized frames, and Colnago is among those trend followers.

If you can't find a Colnago size that fits without going to an extreme setback seatpost and clamp position on the saddle rails I would say one of three things is going on:
1) You're trying to fit yourself on too small a frame;
2) You're just plain fit incorrectly;
3) Your body dimensions vary so far from average that you truly do warrant a completely custom geometry, in which case you probably shouldn't be looking at a Colnago in the first place. Even their previous "custom" orders would only be done within a certain range.

As to the "trend" towards steeper seat tube angles in the smaller sizes in recent years, I haven't noticed that at all. Small frames from any manufacturer generally have steeper seat tube angles than larger frames, and that's the way it's always been. The exceptions are those manufacturers that think they can get away with basically one rear triangle dimension and produce the same seat tube angle on their smallest frames as they do on their largest frames. That philosophy makes no sense to me whatsoever. But I guess it makes manufacturing easier.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:06 am 
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Calnago wrote:
If you can't find a Colnago size that fits without going to an extreme setback seatpost and clamp position on the saddle rails I would say one of three things is going on:
1) You're trying to fit yourself on too small a frame;
2) You're just plain fit incorrectly;
3) Your body dimensions vary so far from average that you truly do warrant a completely custom geometry, in which case you probably shouldn't be looking at a Colnago in the first place. Even their previous "custom" orders would only be done within a certain range.
Or you're fairly short, with short legs, and shorter than average lower legs (longer than average femurs) relative to overall leg length.

And you're right, if Colnago is only going to offer a 74.5 deg STA in my size, then Colnago is not right for me. Or I could buy a larger frame, then go with a -17 stem and still not have enough drop. So a Colnago C60 will be a no go for me. Now if Colnago were willing to make the old classic dimensions of 51 by 53 with 74 STA, then we could talk. A little slacker STA would be even better. As it is, adios Ernesto!!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:42 am 
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Lol... @Hammertime... I have a friend who I built a really nice Rabobank C40 for, in the 51/53 geometry you mention. Short headtube (100mm if I remember correctly). It was the last year they did that before they only offered the 52t in their smallest traditional size. She hasn't ridden it in several years. I will keep you in mind should she ever want to sell it.
But really, a half degree difference in seat tube angle on a very small frame is going to amount to maybe 3mm difference at the saddle rails when all is said and done. There's gotta be something else going on with your fit if that difference would preclude you from getting a Colnago.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:58 am 
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@Calnago:

that is so true indeed.

@Hammertime:

Even with a longer than average femur, and proportionately short legs, most 'compact' geometry framesets will not be an issue fitting a person as long as the effective top-tube is correct. There are -25 degree stems (if a seatube angle that's proportionately correct with the correct ETT length) out there and there are 45mm offset posts (if a low headtube is of primary importance) out there in the market.
Typically I would recommend people outside the norms of bike fit to go for the options that would help them achieve a good posture/position on their bikes without spending too much (as in special stems and posts as above). But for those who can afford, would suggest going custom instead since they are not the 'norm'.

Case in point would be a friend who needed a frame with a headtube of 195mm but an ETT length of 54cm. Helped him order a custom frame and he was so much happier with the ride quality after many years living with frames that looked like giraffes !

Its really a matter of whether the 'fit ideals' of the individual are realistic or whether being 'fashionable looking' comes with forking out the extras for it.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:22 am 
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I choose not to pay thousands of dollars extra so that I can get a worse fitting frame with "heritage".


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:27 am 
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@Harmitc - sure, we'll contact you when we have one in the workshop

@Zakalwe - yes, that's right - no more traditional geometry C59 frames - sloping geometry is no problem though!!

48s will have a 74.5 STA
50s will have a 74 STA

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Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:27 am 


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