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 Post subject: DA 9000 cables
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:30 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:06 pm
Posts: 387
Location: Yorkshire - God's Own Country
I'm in the process of upgrading from 7900 to 9000. The bike (Supersix Evo) has standard 7900 cabling currently. My new groupset has grey outers. The existing cabling has colour-matched in-line adjusters and are the correct colour (white) so I am tempted to just thread the new 9000 inners through the existing outers (which are newish and only used in dry conditions). Is this a seriously bad idea or will the difference be minimal? I understand that the gear outer is the same but the brake outer is different. If I can save £40 on a brake cable set I'd like to but not at the cost of significantly compromising my new brakes.


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 Post subject: DA 9000 cables
Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:30 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: DA 9000 cables
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:19 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:51 pm
Posts: 418
I don't think you'll notice any performance difference on the brakes using an old outer
If your old outers are as stiff as the new ones, brake modulation won't be affected


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 Post subject: Re: DA 9000 cables
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:28 pm
Posts: 1225
I wouldn't use the old housing. Just get a grey or black in line adjuster- or pop for the white 9000 cables and housing (available aftermarket).


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 Post subject: Re: DA 9000 cables
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:58 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:16 pm
Posts: 166
OK I have been meaning to post this somewhere, so figured here would be as good a place as any.

Dura Ace 9000 gear cables suck, so for now, until they improve them, stay away.

I upgraded to DA9000 in April this year. I got it fitted to my SuperSix Evo by the shop. All good, and they did a perfect job. I have the SiSL2 with Spidering so did not get the DA9000 cranks, but everything else is DA9000.

After 3 months, the rear shifter cable snapped. Upon removing it, it was all frayed up and had snapped strand by strand over time, without me noticing, until it got to the point where I did notice (on a ride) then is fully snapped (on the same day as noticing it. It snapped about 2cm from the head of the cable. Remember that part.

I installed a 7900 cable to get me home, as the shop didn't have any 9000 cable inners in stock. I was running the original grey DA9000 cable set (brakes and shifters), so thought I would take the chance to throw money on the newly released black DA9000 cable set to match my bike. How frivolous of me.

I installed the complete new cable set, taking care to install everything perfectly, and with my usual OCD level of care. All good. It went in fine and worked great. For 2 months. Then the front shifter cable went the same way as the rear shifter cable. Started performing badly, then on the same day went 'PING!' and snapped. Same place, 2cm from the end. I got a spare inner from the shop, checked the full shifter, and outer cable path for anything that could be rubbing/snagging. Nothing. Installed it and it worked (is still working) fine.

Then 2 months after that (yesterday!), I was on another ride, and the rear shifter cable snapped a-f**king-gain. In the same way, in the same place. 2cm from the end. This was 3 months in total since installing it along with a complete new set of outers.

So, lets look at this.

Front and rear cables have been installed with 2 different sets of outers, by two different people, one a professional bike mechanic and one an obsessive 34 year old man with a life-long history of working with bikes. All snapped in the same way, in the left AND right shifter.

The rear cables have snapped with twice the frequency of the front, which makes sense, as I shift a lot more on the back that the front, so any friction issue is likely to cause damage faster on the rear than the front.

Now, when it first happened, I posted on the usual places and predictably a number of people did the whole 'you installed it wrong, etc. etc. blah blah' rubbish, proving how little faith they have in me. I was adamant that this wasa design issue, but they were not having it. So what.

Well, yesterday, I posted up on Facebook my annoyance at yet another DA9000 cable snapping, to which a pro-race mechanic who wrenches for Neil Pryde-Peugeot in Asia piped up and said he had been seeing this a LOT on his team as they use the mechanical DA for racing. He is convinced, like me, that this is a design flaw.

So, the 2cm bit... Well, I had a good look inside the shifter, and it seems the area 2cm under the head of the cable is the part that slides back and forth inside the actual shifter, on the channel designed to guide it. it doesn't go in and out of the cable outer, so this is most likely a design issue with the shifter / cable material combination, rather than some friction issue with the end of the cable outer, or that funny fluted thing you put on the end as it goes into the shifter body.

Now, so what, you are probably thinking. Well, I wanted to share how I now have my bike set up to deal with this, and also have been informed by the race mechanic that he is doing the same, to prevent you having the same issues I have been having.

I now run this...

Front and Rear Brake: DA9000 cables, inner and Outer.
Front Mech: DA9000 cable: Inner and Outer.
Rear Mech: DA9000 Outer. DA7900 Inner.

Have I noticed any difference in shifting on the rear? Not a single bit. Admittedly, the 200yen Stainless Steel Shimano cable I used to get me home yesterday was a BIT less slick the DA9000 it replaced, but after 'upgrading' this to a DA7900 cable, I can not notice the difference.

So, I would honestly recommend considering this, if you want to be able to fit and forget your cables, and not get stuck in the middle of nowhere with only 53/11 to ride home on.


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 Post subject: Re: DA 9000 cables
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:23 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:51 pm
Posts: 418
OwenJames wrote:
OK I have been meaning to post this somewhere, so figured here would be as good a place as any.

Dura Ace 9000 gear cables suck, so for now, until they improve them, stay away.



I've been using the Yokozuna Reaction cable set with the 9000, it's been flawless and shifts better, a bit hard to install initially as the outers are compression-less and difficult to bend.


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 Post subject: Re: DA 9000 cables
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:40 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:16 pm
Posts: 166
Ah nice one. Will check them out. Always on the look out for new stuff. Appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: DA 9000 cables
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:55 pm
Posts: 153
Maybe you won't be too happy with the 7900 cable as well, as allegedly the PTFE on them sometimes flakes off after a while and makes them considerably stiffer then when new...

FWIW: I'm running SP41 by the meter and Dura Ace level stainless steel cables without any coating with my 9000. For me, it surely shifts smooth enough and i didn't have any probs so far...


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 Post subject: Re: DA 9000 cables
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:22 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:06 pm
Posts: 387
Location: Yorkshire - God's Own Country
Thanks to all for their comments. I have previously read about the inners breaking within the shifters and won't be surprised if mine follow suit but have been as OCD as possible with the installation.
I will clean and keep the barely used 7900 ones in case!


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 Post subject: Re: DA 9000 cables
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:16 pm
Posts: 166
Dual- aaaaah, that makes excellent mechanical sense for why they are snapping.


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 Post subject: Re: DA 9000 cables
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:16 pm
Posts: 166
Svetty- let us know what hilarious situation you get yourself in when they inevitably snap.


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 Post subject: Re: DA 9000 cables
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:12 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:55 pm
Posts: 153
OwenJames wrote:
Dual- aaaaah, that makes excellent mechanical sense for why they are snapping.


If you refer to the 9000, i'm not so sure that's the reason. Shimano has stated that the 9000 cables' coating doesn't flake off anymore. Anyway, time will tell...

P.S.: My experience with 7900 and reading this and the thread about failing 9000 cassettes makes me think about excavating my old 7800, hahaha...


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 Post subject: Re: DA 9000 cables
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:36 pm 
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User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:27 pm
Posts: 389
Location: Switzerland
The problem is going to be resolved with the new 9001 shifters, soon to be released.

Cable routing is now similar to ultegra 6800.


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 Post subject: Re: DA 9000 cables
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:53 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:55 pm
Posts: 153
First i thought you were kidding, but:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/eb/d ... prod109532

there they are...


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 Post subject: Re: DA 9000 cables
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:55 pm 
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User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:27 pm
Posts: 389
Location: Switzerland
:lol:

No, it's not some kind of a rumor or something, it's real. You don't kid with shimano :D

The proof (from the japanese brochure) :

Image


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 Post subject: Re: DA 9000 cables
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:55 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: DA 9000 cables
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:09 pm 
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User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:27 pm
Posts: 389
Location: Switzerland
Image


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