Wert Straight Shooter stem

[Johnny Rad]

The Long One. (130mm only)

[mythical]

A -17˚ would have been nice, but I can live with that.

Then choose the ±17º version instead of the ±8º one.

The Long One. (130mm only)

It's been decided that the available lengths are going to be 75, 90, 100, 110, 120, 130 and 145mm in 2 angles.

Sidenote: Please understand that the Straight Shooter stem is purposed for both on-road and off-road utilization and represents an attempt to go beyond the known boundaries of stem engineering and the CNC-machining thereof. Its key features are increased stiffness, to improve steering feel and handling, and excellent durability, for safety. Wert Cycling aims to compete with mainstream brands in stiffness and durability while inadvertently competing with the lightest stems, both in terms of weight as well as stiffness-to-weight.

Based on all the sizes that need to be stocked, it may not be the wisest decision to have a stem as a first product release. However, the motivation of Wert Cycling is to fulfill the demands of the largest possible fit range from the smallest to the largest riders in the two biggest disciplines in cycling. That means a stem has to cope with the possibilities of being paired with drop bars, aero bars, or the ever-wider offerings of mountainbike handlebars (up to 808mm from what I've seen).

Hopefully, it'll all come together satisfactorily.

[mattyNor]

Put me down for a -8 130mm!

[robertg]

You wouldn't happen to have one in the works for 1.25 steerer tubes ala Giant?

[mellowJohnny]

Can't wait for the matching seatpost...you are making a seatpost, right?

Eagerly awaiting the finished product

[dolophonic]

1.25 ....canyon calling..

[mythical]

You wouldn't happen to have one in the works for 1.25 steerer tubes ala Giant?

1.25 ....canyon calling..

Yes, except probably only in ±17º. That said, the 1.125-inch stems are first. Since special tooling is needed for each variation of steerer clamping (angles, diameter), its release date will depend on the progress in the sales of the standard stems. Keeping stock of a 1.25 version probably hinges on demand and might perhaps become a custom option only.

Can't wait for the matching seatpost...you are making a seatpost, right?

Yes, it’s focussed on comfort, ease of maintenance and fit for both Ø7mm and 7x9.6mm rails. After 7 different design iterations, the rail clamp system was finally settled on. As is the material, but the interface between the head and the mast is thus far still undecided.

Wert Cycling's product planning looks as follows:

Phase 1: Stems, expanders, seat collars & QR skewers (target: Q1 '15)
Phase 2: Seatposts (probably late Q2 '15)
Phase 3: Wheelsets (road wheels possibly as early as Q3 '15)
Phase 4: Cranksets (undetermined)
Phase 5: Clipless pedals (undetermined)

[blasdelf]

After 7 different design iterations, the rail clamp system was finally settled on.

I'm interested in what the clamp offset and width will be, so many weenie designs effectively have negative setback because the leading edge of the upper clamp is so far forward.

and I'm very excited about there being such an awesome stem on the market in 145mm!

[Starter]

Just because CNC'd parts are inherently weaker than forged ones, and this is a part that's pushing the limits on weight savings.

That is a misconception many hold. A properly designed and executed CNC part is just as strong. No need to paint broad strokes.

The idea that it's a myth that forging is stronger than CNCing is something I've heard almost exclusively as it relates to the high-end cycling industry, and further, almost exclusively as it relates to stems and cranksets. So basically, whenever I hear someone saying that CNC is just as strong, they are talking about how it relates to one tiny facet of one tiny cottage industry. So by default, they're not exactly discussing confidence-inspiring numbers of units from which empirical data can be gleaned from.

Now in the car industry (which is far, far, far larger) I can say that the position of the experts I've heard is generally that forging inherently produces a stronger item. That's not to say that CNCing coupled with good engineering can't produce some strong items, it's just alluding to all things being equal design-wise, the forged item is generally expected to possess greater strength and durability. For instance, on factory race cars, where money is generally not an object and reducing weight is paramount, you will still see many parts that could be lighter if CNC machined, yet remain forged, ostensibly for strength.

Again, I'm not professing to have this knowledge directly- I'm not an engineer. I could very well be wrong. I'm just relaying what I've seen and heard between two different industries... One tiny and specialized, the other one of the largest on the planet. This has led me, right or wrong, to trust forged stems more than CNC'd stems.

It probably doesn't help that the only stem failure I've experienced was a CNC'd product, ha ha.

[spytech]

Any chance of making at 35mm (bar clamp) stem, i would love to grab one of those. many bar options in mtb.

[mythical]

@Starter: I see your attempt to draw out a discussion and I'll happily oblige. It might make this thread more interesting.

Like other riders and bike mechanics, I have also experienced my share of broken cranks, both forged and CNC'd, both of my own doing and that of others. Mostly, these can indeed be attributed to inadequate or faulty engineering, but we need to understand the nature of the failure before pointing the blame. To say a part failed (or will fail) due to being CNC-machined is simply fallacious. Example: for many decades now, many trustworthy hubs are CNC-turned on high-tech lathes (e.g. Chris King) and no fair-minded cyclist minds having those on their bikes.

Nearly always failures manifest due to an inordinately large surface tension exceeding the material properties upon a part being (often repeatedly) loaded a certain way. However, sometimes a failure occurs due to inconsistencies in the sourced material, but most manufacturers have a certain rate of expected failures with each product. Fact is, the bike industry is simply more haphazard than, say, aerospace or automotive.

Fortunately, a lot of effort has gone into safety for the protection of riders, both through legislation and efforts of manufactures and riders. We now have pretty strict safety standards, like CEN-EN, DIN, CPSC and ISO norms, by which parts need to comply in order to protect riders. Over the decades, designers have gotten better at understanding the forces that parts need to resist. Today, we see safe parts at mind-boggling low weights that were unheard of years, or even months ago. Safety standards, and even more so the arduous engineering process of renowned component manufacturers, have contributed heavily to this. Even the UCI has made CEN-EN testing mandatory for certain disciplines, where competing without is prohibited, like the frames, wheels, cranks, stems on WorldTour bikes, even going so far as to say only production framesets are allowed to be raced.

Again, due to the erratic nature of the bike industry, these practices aren't observed widely enough. At all times there are so many new entries by people who start bike companies who lack the means, or simply have an insufficient notion of the importance of testing and (that word again) validation. Then you have riders who want to save money by buying cheap Chinese stuff that comes without any certification or even a product manual. We should simply resist buying such products, otherwise we inadvertently spoil the market and thereby also indirectly endanger other riders by allowing suppliers to dump their stuff on ignorant consumers. FWIW, my maternal great-grandfather was from Beijing, and I feel a certain connection with the Chinese culture, but not the rampant unprincipled exploitation of capitalism.

I now feel that timing is favorable for Wert Cycling to add in its chip to the wide variety in the market place of bike parts. If you believe that a certain CNC-machined part is too light for you, and you are afraid it might fail at some point, then here is my advice: don't buy it!

To me, cycling is about the visceral experience during a ride, and feeling unified with the bike as an extension of our body. A good bike merely play its part well.

Any chance of making at 35mm (bar clamp) stem, i would love to grab one of those. many bar options in mtb.

Apart from the Deda Trentacinque, aren't these mostly found on downhill bikes? Honestly, I have no desire to design any stem for Ø35mm bars, for either road or MTB, but I don't rule out any future possibilities.

[mythical]

I'm interested in what the clamp offset and width will be, so many weenie designs effectively have negative setback because the leading edge of the upper clamp is so far forward.

I agree, and this is especially the case with any manufacturer that takes a tube, drills a hole, adds 2 yokes, a cradle and some hardware, and calls it a seatpost. At least have some decency, like Thomson, to put some effort into it!

I'm working on a seatpost with variable setback to accommodate those who like their saddle far back as well as those who would otherwise ride a straight seatpost. It's not an easy feat, especially when the result needs to be original and practical while at the same time meeting (self-imposed) weight and safety restrictions.

and I'm very excited about there being such an awesome stem on the market in 145mm!

Me too!

[Rick]

If this helps clarify: (I am an M.E.) If all other things are equal, a forged part of the same alloy can generally be stronger and more fatigue resistant than a CNC'd part.
But:
1. All other things are never equal.
2. While a forged part can stronger, there is still no guarantee that it is stronger. Depends on the forging process, grain alignments, etc. Frankly, the main reason for forgings is that they are cheaper in mass production.
3. A CNCd part can be plenty strong enough and there are other advantages to CNC in the flexibility of design.

So, like most things, it really comes down to comparing very specific products to one another. I have no qualms at all about using CNCd part. Thomson is currently one of my favorite brands. Looking forward to Wert!

FWIW: Some parts even use a combination of forging and subsequent machining to maximize the benefits of both processes.

[spartan]

wert straight shooter VS extralite hyperstem.......who wins the stiffness/weight ratio. price comparison

[Starter]

@Mythical-

I am not saying a part will fail simply because it is CNC'd. I'm saying that based on what I've heard from people in quite a few other industries, forging is generally considered stronger than CNC machining, and in my limited experience, it is only within the cycling industry that this apparently fairly well-established belief is challenged. Rick, a mechanical engineer, seems to agree that forging generally creates a stronger item than CNCing... Albeit with the caveat that rarely are all things equal in terms of design and application, and the forging process and material makes all the difference as far as a forged item reaching it's potential in terms of actual superior strength and durability. At least if I understood what he was saying correctly.

So to clarify, I am not suggesting that CNC machining is inherently unsafe, nor that any CNC'd stem will fail simply by virtue of it being CNC'd. There are plenty of safe, strong, stiff CNC stems. I'd go so far as to say that 99.9% of the CNC'd stems on the market are safe. I'd assume yours is safe. It was certainly not my intention to cast doubt on the safety of your design. Personally, however, if I had to choose between two stems of the same length, drop, and weight, I'd probably go forged over CNC'd, because why not? Sure, I'm covering against the 0.01%, but there it is. To put that decision in perspective however, I'd imagine the graphics and overall aesthetics would be a larger factor for me than forged vs CNC'd, ha ha.

At any rate, your design appears to certainly takes full advantage of the benefits of CNC machining... Those weights are amazing... Congrats!