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 Post subject: Re: SR11 chain drop
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:25 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:56 pm
Posts: 490
Location: Canada
I can change both at the same time on my Di2, and it works fine...............just sayin"


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 Post subject: Re: SR11 chain drop
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:37 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:36 am
Posts: 1131
Location: UK
goodboyr wrote:
The other side of the chaincatcher is the problem you encounter if your chain gets stuck behind the chaincatcher. Pretty well impossible to unstick without tools. Keep your drivetrain properly set up and in good shape and you rarely or never drop a chain.....and if you do its easy to get it back in while riding.

That's more a case of the chain catcher being incorrectly setup. It may be easy to get the chain back on but it still takes time. The OP made the point he lost touch with the group he was in. It's the reason most Pro bikes have them fitted.

Also there's the damage to a frame's finish from a chain drop - gouges in carbon, scratched paint etc.


cshiells wrote:
I just phoned the Campagnolo factory rep at Campagnolo North America at (760) 931-0106. We discussed my problem. He said I shouldn't shift both front and rear derailleurs at the same time (which I was doing, in the transition from downhill to uphill; by the way, I'm running non-electronic SR), but they recommend to allow a half second or a full second between the two shifts to allow the chain to seat before the second shift.

Definitely not the issue, been doing that successfully with every version of ergopower shifters that have been produced.


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 Post subject: Re: SR11 chain drop
Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:37 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: SR11 chain drop
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:06 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:56 pm
Posts: 490
Location: Canada
5 8 5 wrote:
That's more a case of the chain catcher being incorrectly setup. It may be easy to get the chain back on but it still takes time. The OP made the point he lost touch with the group he was in. It's the reason most Pro bikes have them fitted.

Also there's the damage to a frame's finish from a chain drop - gouges in carbon, scratched paint etc.




Here's the problem with chain catchers.......when set up correctly, if you get chain suck or you accidentally pedal backwards after a shift (this sometimes happens when you have just shifted down before a stop, and the chain is part way shifted, then you pedal slightly back), you will get the chain stuck under a perfectly setup chain catcher. You're screwed at that point unless you get the catcher out of the way, by loosening it, or maybe bending it. I agree that you prevent damage due to chain drop, but with a well setup FD, chain drop is a rare occurence, and unless you keep pedaling hard after a drop, the damage is minor if at all, in an area that's beefy and hard to really wreck. I understand many use and love catchers, I'm just providing an alternative view, without wanting to get into a big OT debate on catchers.

ps. Andy Schleck had a chain catcher..............and you know what happened there.


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 Post subject: Re: SR11 chain drop
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:39 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:10 am
Posts: 19
It's useful though discouraging to hear that riders expect like me to be able to dump both front and rear quickly and that Campagnolo NAs advice was not to do this. Itnot had a chain drop in 40+years of riding and working on bikes before this. In the first 400 miles with the new chain, it's dropped three times. I may just have to go to my favorite mechanic, but I'd really rather sort the issue out myself.


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 Post subject: Re: SR11 chain drop
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:56 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Posts: 4444
Location: Canada
Huh?!

That is the most ridiculous thing I have heard in a long time (and I just had a big blow-up with some crazy guys in Korea who think that after-tax yields on Class 'A' product should be plus-7)! I have shifted EPS on both derailleurs at the same time, all the way across the cluster, twice a lap, twice a week all year on my interval course. That is absolutely untrue.

I have been on Shimano Di2 exclusively for the past few years. My friends at Lotto-Belisol got me on Campagnolo this season. I can tell you, unequivocally, that EPS is the equal of Di2 in every way (ok, except maybe battery life). if adjusted properly, either of EPS or Di2 will easily handle double-shifts in either direction, under load. No problem.


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 Post subject: Re: SR11 chain drop
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:31 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:58 am
Posts: 446
Funny how there was never a problem until the chain was replaced. I would expect wear/tear on all the other components and the new chain would need to have time to break in together. How would you blame any machine that has some new parts and some worn parts to work perfectly. It would not matter who made it, new and worn parts will work differently than all new parts. Give it time to have all the parts wear together and then see what happens.

As for EPS shifting at the same time, I have never seen both derailleurs shift exactly the same time like my mechanical SR11. I can send the command at the same time, but one works before the other. That is one feature I liked about the mechanical version over the electric version.


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 Post subject: Re: SR11 chain drop
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:24 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:36 am
Posts: 1131
Location: UK
cshiells wrote:
I may just have to go to my favorite mechanic, but I'd really rather sort the issue out myself.

While in bottom gear, set the low limit screw as close as possible to the chain without actually touching it.


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 Post subject: Re: SR11 chain drop
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 7:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:57 pm
Posts: 652
Location: NYC
Just because you can does not mean you should....and just because it works, doesn't mean that it was explicitly designed to do so!

In other words, just because you can engage a double dump or double jump shift of your gears, doesn't mean that you should, especially if you don't know how to finesse the shift and AVOID shifting under load. Even under race conditions I think it would be hard for anyone to justify the NEED to engage a double shift....the split second it takes to pause and wait for one shift to engage before starting the other will not lose you the race. And if you have to engage such an extreme change in gears it means that you weren't in the right gears to begin with and probably were already losing.

Also there is nothing explicit in the design or the marketing of either Shimano or Campagnolo that indicate that their systems were designed to withstand double dump or a double jump shifts....both systems are very capable of such shifts (with the correct finesse....not for the ham fisted). So, when the Campy rep responded to the OP over phone conversation indicating that the system wasn't designed to engage said shifting he said nothing wrong. More importantly, given that the OP admitted to shifting under load then the rep was even more correct....he sensed the OPs lack of finesse and provided sound counseling to otherwise sloppy shifting technique (no offense to the OP...really).

Lastly, with regards to a chain catcher....chain drop has ALWAYS happened and is not a new phenomenon. We might be hearing about it more today because their are fewer master mechanics in the world who know how to properly adjust a front mech, but even on a bike with a perfectly adjusted front mech, chain drop is STILL possible. A lot depends on the wear of your drive train and most importantly the conditions in which you ride. For example, I might leave my home with a perfectly adjusted front mech on a new drive train on a crisp winter morning....half way through the ride I may encounter rain, which then turns into slush and then light snow...after a few miles the sand/dirt and other road grime coupled with a bit of ice hanging on my chain will really challenge any shifting I engage (despite my perfectly adjusted front mech). Think of the chain catcher as insurance that will protect your $5K carbon frame...don't think of it as a cycling dunce cap that signals your lack of mechanical skills.

Here is wishing everyone chain drop free rides.
EM3

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My 2013 Cervelo R5


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 Post subject: Re: SR11 chain drop
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:55 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:10 am
Posts: 19
This is informative to me. I may have shifted under stress although shifting in the transition from down to uphill need not entail this. What I don't see is why with unchanged s shifting technique the new chain dropped but the old chain didn't.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:37 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:20 am
Posts: 330
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