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 Post subject: Venge Vias Backlash.....
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:06 pm 
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Posts: 302
Just thought I would start a separate thread on this. I know everyone seems to be bashing the new Venge, especially since the pro riders haven't been using them. Whether it's rider preference, the brakes, not enough seat time, or whatever the case may be. I don't know how quickly riders typically adjust or switch to the new bikes when they come out. I seem to remember the original venge first being raced at MSR, and it was incorporated relatively quickly to other pro riders after that. So why aren't other pro riders using it? I know some of the ITU triathletes are now using the Vias as well. It will be really interesting to see what happens early next year when the spring classics and big races come back. Marketing wise, it would look really bad if the big names weren't riding the bike. And of course you don't want to force riders to be riding something they don't like, you want them to love it and want to use it for everything day in and day out.

I know some of the guys at Spesh have said the reason Cav and Sagan weren't riding them more during the TdF was that they did not have enough seat time and weren't comfortable using them yet. A few months have passed, and we still aren't seeing them being used. What gives?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:14 pm 
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If it's the case of the brakes it seems intuitive that triathletes are using more than road cyclists, they don't rely as much on the breaks as roadies.


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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:14 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:21 pm 
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Spec has said it's a difficult bike to work on and there are only so many mechanics on a team and only so many hours in a day. Combine that with the top 2 pros that should be on the bike not liking it and there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of incentive to ride it. Unless Spec come along and tell the teams to use it or they'll pull sponsorship, I can't see how pick-up is going to be any faster.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:30 pm 
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In the case of ITU racing, I would say that the brakes are actually a pretty big deal. I believe there is a lot more marketing geared towards "aero" in the triathlon bike market, and I'm sure a lot of that has bled over into ITU racing where it's draft-legal and a TT bike makes no sense and having a roadie with good handling and braking is essential. Those races often get pretty hairy as those races have only 40km of bike segments where it's basically people chasing non-stop breakaway attempts for 40km.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:13 pm 
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Why ignore the possibillity of Vias being a mediocre frame? The history of technology is full of smaller or bigger 'failures'. It's not that a big deal.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:55 pm 
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It's because the unsold stock of the older model is huge.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:25 pm 
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Hopefully you will compile the results of asking this same question simultaneously on slowtwitch, rbr and this site, so that we have a good statistical review of the results......

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:56 pm 
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goodboyr wrote:
Hopefully you will compile the results of asking this same question simultaneously on slowtwitch, rbr and this site, so that we have a good statistical review of the results......


Not everyone looks at all 3 forums like you and I, so just thought I'd get all the feedback possible :welcome:


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:00 pm 
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mile2424 wrote:
goodboyr wrote:
Hopefully you will compile the results of asking this same question simultaneously on slowtwitch, rbr and this site, so that we have a good statistical review of the results......


Not everyone looks at all 3 forums like you and I, so just thought I'd get all the feedback possible :welcome:

Exactly. That's why you should compile the results.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:05 pm 
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Watching Terpstra on an old Venge at Binche-Chimay-Binche today. I was thinking about that Vias Venge not being ideal for the cobbled and short steep sections, but that it is fine if they have a third option. Tarmac, regular Venge and flat/aero venge, so what.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:48 am 
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Posts: 70
I'm interested in the bike but I've heard rumors saying that the braking performance is off because of the new placement of the brakes, and that it isn't such a confident descender as the tarmac.

If it's really just good in the windtunnel - then it's really not so good at all?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 10:56 am 
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Posts: 489
aerod,
For my money, I would wait a bit on buying a VIAS. This new bike took quite a while for Spesh to develop and its initial showing has not been impressive as discussed on forums like this. Is some of the rap perhaps unfair or blown out of proportion? Maybe...but many grains of truth as well. There is a bit of irony in what Spesh has done with the Venge replacement. The original Venge was built as a compromise of sorts. Spesh admitted that the old Venge was a compromise between aero and say Tarmac overall performance. It didn't match say the slippery-ness of an older S5 in a wind tunnel. But many preferred the ride of the original Venge to a S5 which Cervelo created as a slave to aero. So enter the more purpose built Venge that is even more slippery with new brake position...harder to change derailleur and brake cables because they are routed entirely through the frame and stem...and the bike isn't getting a lot of love and even its aesthetic is under fire. For my money, I would probably just pick up a 1 yr. old Venge and call it good and save $2K and have less hassle with cable maintenance and more stem options. Much easier to tweak handlebar position on the old Venge compared to new.

So the jury is still out on the new Venge. It may end up being one of the best bikes out there but right now there is no validation of that. Of all the aero bikes I have ridden, I find the Cervelo S3 to be quite an outstanding bike and in fact rivals the venerable R3 as an all arounder which is tall praise because the R series Cervelos are great all around road bikes...same rear triangle with great ride quality between new S and R...S bikes being more slippery.

I personally would steer clear of the new Venge and I am a big Spesh fan. Time will tell.

PS: when I consider the new VIAS I can't help but think of the concept of diminishing return in quest of improvement. To me, the new Venge is the BB30 of bikes. Why a comparison with a bottom bracket? Because most that have owned a threaded BB with outboard bearings and DA or Ultegra crank have had miles of miles of great performance without compromise. Enter BB30 with its fractionally lower weight and higher stiffness and who among us can really feel the difference? And yet BB30 has been beleaguered with noise and bearing life issues which btw can be tamed effectively for noise but many have had greater luck with an external bearing threaded BB. To me the new Venge is in many ways similar. Further departure from convention and a resultant downside and for what marginal improvement? I believe the marketing card gets overplayed on the web and marketing is often scapegoated but the reality is...a bike like the new VIAS Venge is a race bike that may favor a pro because of its finicky nature that pro mechanics will have to contend with but for the average weekend warrior, it is too purpose built. So to me, the calculus is marketing and selling bikes. Difference for difference sake with little true improvement and clear downside to maintenance. Even the pros have preferred the old Venge early on so just how great a margin of 'improvement' is there with the VIAS? Many can read the tea leaves. The new Venge is basically a F1 car...a Ducati super sport motorcycle that few will want to live with day in and day out. My commentary.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:42 pm 
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Posts: 90
Peter Sagan now rides a tarmac.

Gesendet von meinem D5803 mit Tapatalk


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:10 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:47 pm
Posts: 59
han1337 wrote:
Peter Sagan now rides a tarmac.

Gesendet von meinem D5803 mit Tapatalk

Depends on if he gets a World Champion edition Venge, too. He has been riding both Tarmac and (old) Venge in the past depending on the race profile.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:07 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:51 pm
Posts: 823
my theory is that with the next iteration of groupsets (Dura Ace 9001 / Red 22.11) cable-pull braking will be gone, and it will be hydro braking/ mech or digital shifting. SRAM already have hydraulic rim brakes (that there isn't much fanfare/use/reviews of - somewhat overshadowed by the move to disc perhaps?)

Zipp/Sram included 'with hydraulic rim brakes the braking on the NSW 808 is as good as hydraulic disc' in their marketing.
I assume that Shimano will come out with a hydraulic rim calliper - and that by the customer simply choosing calliper type everyone uses the same shifters.

The big thing about hydraulic braking is the control, rather than the power.

I imagine with the routing, the vias with hydraulic rim would be much more desirable.


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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:07 pm 


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