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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:14 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:56 pm
Posts: 17
jwfinesse, this is terrific information, man! I really appreciate hearing from you on this. In fact, your pics speak a thousand words...they look identical? I thought I recall from 2 of the 9000's I owned that they were single-rivet? Your pic shows double and no change at all to the R9100? I am now really confused. My LBS in Boulder, CO is now following this saga with me. Having said this, I have never cracked the carbon carrier. Just wow..that is simply ridiculous! BTW, I can make mine creak in either chain ring...it all depends on the amount of torque/power/watts I put into it. Only does it when I am giving some moderate to hard effort.


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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:14 am 


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:46 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:51 am
Posts: 59
Location: NY
Carbon structure with a riveted design is identical. If they changed the integrity of the material, or internally reinforced, I wouldn't know unfortunately. However, I guess it's safe to bet that they are identical in terms of structural integrity since 9000,9100 both creaks under the same effort. Low cadence (usually 60~70s but happens in 80s) above 400 watts, 28t, 25t, most prominent on 23t, not as bad on 21t, and rarely on 19t (rarely as in it creaked once). So basically, on a very short incline with gradient around 5%, where I don't bother downshifting the front chain ring, but instead choose to slightly cross-chain, I get the creaks.

Strange why I don't get creaks on a small chainring and you do. I'm 6'1 and weigh about 220lbs on a good day, so speed above 10mph@10% incline usually takes efforts up to 6~700 watts easily. However, I don't get creaks on those cogs, ever.

If you don't mind, can you share your info on environment, cadence, power, weight when it creaks?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:09 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:56 pm
Posts: 17
First thing that caught my attention on your recent post wasn't even about the creaking that is going to send me to the psych ward...it was your mention of 10mph at 10% grade? Which World Tour team are you on? Seriously! I can do that too...for about 60-90 seconds tops. Wow. I am 5'8" and about 172 lbs. Pretty decent climber, but pretty ferocious sprinter. Creaking happens at any cadence of ~ 90 and below...I can make it happen seated or standing. Watts are certainly at over 350 to make it start. Happens on all cogs between 19-28 on the 11-28 cassette. I am hoping Shimano USA finds this post. They have given me $1000 worth of free metal.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:52 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:51 am
Posts: 59
Location: NY
LOL, of course I can't hold that kinda power for long:) I most definitely wish I could. Reason why I mentioned that was to say I tested out various power/speed output to test out the cassette. Back when I did the tests though, I was less worried about the creaks, but more so about the catastrophic carrier destruction. Some pics on previous pages of this thread shows cogs just disappearing mid-ride, hence my worries as a dude on the heavier end of the spectrum.

And yes, Shimano HQ, Shimano USA, Shimano Europe, and even Shimano Korea all know about this. Otherwise, the two-rivet running change wouldn't have happened.

I guess you could be like me; put up with the creak, and warranty claim when cassettes implode.
Or continue to warranty the cassettes as creaks develop. Your right as a consumer, since no cassette should creak.
Or switch to Ultegra 6800/8000 cassettes, and enjoy the quietness with a bit of weight gain.
Or Sram Red cassette, and enjoy the quietness with a bit of weight LOSS, but some people suffer shifting issues when paired with Shimano.

These, I think, are pretty much sums up the entirety of this thread, as long as Shimano continues roll with this badly engineered product.


Last edited by jwfinesse on Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:04 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:56 pm
Posts: 17
Yep, my shop told me to roll with Ultegra...I said that is a band-aid to a larger problem. That's like saying, "yes, we here at Lexus know our cars have issues...probably best to roll with Toyota". F THAT (no offense to my LBS because they are the BEST)! Fix your top of the line product, Shimano! Are you kidding me? We should not have to deal with this. Heck, it's Tiagra that should have this issue...not DA, right?


Last edited by matty1000 on Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:25 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:23 am
Posts: 589
Location: Olympic Nat'l Park, WA
That carrier looks like Bakelite!


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:42 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:56 pm
Posts: 17
I thank Shimano and my LBS...just received my 5th new DA CS-R9100 cassette. Truth is, I don't want any more warrantied cassettes...I just want one to run as quiet as they used to (aka, 10-spd). Time will tell, but I am hoping I can be a catalyst for change, because Houston, we DO have a problem.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:06 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:53 am
Posts: 806
NICE @UpFromOne

Not only does it look like Bakelite, it has the same strength!!! POS!!!

C


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:22 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:29 am
Posts: 378
Surely, this issue can't be that hard to fix.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:53 am
Posts: 806
Shimano thinks there is nothing to fix...

C


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:25 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:56 pm
Posts: 17
I think with myself being the #1 warranty guy (unfortunately) for this product, they are starting to take interest. Could be a good thing.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:48 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:28 am
Posts: 37
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
jwfinesse wrote:
LOL, of course I can't hold that kinda power for long:) I most definitely wish I could. Reason why I mentioned that was to say I tested out various power/speed output to test out the cassette. Back when I did the tests though, I was less worried about the creaks, but more so about the catastrophic carrier destruction. Some pics on previous pages of this thread shows cogs just disappearing mid-ride, hence my worries as a dude on the heavier end of the spectrum.

And yes, Shimano HQ, Shimano USA, Shimano Europe, and even Shimano Korea all know about this. Otherwise, the two-rivet running change wouldn't have happened.

I guess you could be like me; put up with the creak, and warranty claim when cassettes implode.
Or continue to warranty the cassettes as creaks develop. Your right as a consumer, since no cassette should creak.
Or switch to Ultegra 6800/8000 cassettes, and enjoy the quietness with a bit of weight gain.
Or Sram Red cassette, and enjoy the quietness with a bit of weight LOSS, but some people suffer shifting issues when paired with Shimano.

These, I think, are pretty much sums up the entirety of this thread, as long as Shimano continues roll with this badly engineered product.


Yep. Haven't read anything in this MASSIVE thread bar the last page here; but I'll add this:

Re: Is it an issue with the riveted carbon spider?

I'd be incredibly surprised if it wasn't.

I'm 70kg. New DA cassette about 4 years ago. New bike. Kept hearing this clicking noise under load (not dropping any massive watt bombs). Thought it was BB for ages etc. Turns out it was the DA cassette.

After quite a few trips to mechanic - (he must have been trying everything) I didn't get a satisfactory answer but it was kind of dulled. In any case after about 4,000km - the DA 9000 cassette shattered / cracked under load.

Not cool. Sent to wiggle back for warranty; they obliged - and it sat there in new box until I sold it recently.

Now I have a new bike; new build (plan to sell it in a few months). So I thought; what the hell... maybe they fixed the issue w/ the cassettes? And it'd make it easier selling it as full DA 9100... and yet after about 120km in now...

Starting to hear the noise... SMH.

In between that new DA above; I had been using an Ultegra - no problems, work horse.


:shock:

_________________
It's all about the adventure :o .


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:27 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:28 pm
Posts: 113
I have just bought brand new 9100 11-30 cassette via ebay..after reading this thread I think I should resale it as a new..it seems to me that there is no single problem free dura ace cassette..:(

Or is there something I can do to minimise the risk of creaking/cracking? Lube rivets and apply anti-seize on the contact area between cassette and freehub?
Tighten to max or to min or something recommended?

Thanks..


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:38 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:56 pm
Posts: 17
There is no fix as of right now. Although I have never cracked the R9100 cassette, as you have read on the last two pages of this forum, I have made five cassettes creak. My honest disposition is that it certainly must be the riveted carbon spider, but the fact that my top two cogs, which are on the aluminum spider, creak as well does not support this. So in conclusion, there is no fix as of right now. Riding Ultegra, as I mentioned in a previous post, is a Band-Aid fix and simply ridiculous. That’s like Honda saying, just drive a Civic for now instead of the Accord. Absolutely inexcusable what is happening for years now with this problem. Heck, go to page 1 of this forum and it brings you back 4 1/2 years!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:05 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:29 am
Posts: 378
It is funny that we don't see these failing, or having any issues, in the pro races, wonder why...


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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:05 pm 


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