Dura Ace 9000 11 speed cassette- rubish product design

[RedRacer]

Have many (any) DA owners switched to a SRAM XG-1190 11-28 cassette? Any change in shift performance or drivetrain noise?

I switched and did encounter an issue with the largest cog. The largest cog is thicker than the rest and the chain refuses to get on the cog. If you adjust the indexing so it gets on, then the chain refuses to shift from the 12th cog to the 11th cog. I put on a new chain and fine tuned the shifting (on a Shimano Di2 9070) and it seemed to work OK. After a break-in period the issue seems to be resolved.

I paid about $220 for my Sram 1190. I do find the one-piece construction of the 1190 to offer better power transfer than the Dura Ace. Not to mention it's even lighter and more durable than the Dura Ace. So to me the extra money spent is well worth it. I just wish Sram could make the 28 cog the same thickness as the rest. The 28 cog doesn't get used often so being aluminum should be OK.

Thank for the report! I would be using the XG-1190 with DA Di2 9070 so it sounds like the final result is positive.

Any thoughts on using a DA chain vs the SRAM Red22 chain with the XG-1190 cassette? As much as I would like to use as much Shimano as possible it would seen logical to combine the SRAM cassette with a SRAM chain.

[petal666]

I work for a company that sells a lot of high end kit. We have not had a single issue. Not one.

Maybe they all just ride to the coffee shop at 150W.
I've only ever broken 1, although I used Ultegra after that. My friend has done 5 or 6.

[tymon_tm]

in my case some creaking started after ~7-9k kms. which is kinda early for a DA. I just put it on my winter wheels and replaced it with Ultegra and then Sram (got it super cheap from a mate). I've heard about one broken cassette, but that was during a cyclocross race, so...

as for Sram vs DA, I run mechanical so no issues making it work, maybe even slightly better than the original (I use DA chains too)

[pdlpsher1]

Have many (any) DA owners switched to a SRAM XG-1190 11-28 cassette? Any change in shift performance or drivetrain noise?

I switched and did encounter an issue with the largest cog. The largest cog is thicker than the rest and the chain refuses to get on the cog. If you adjust the indexing so it gets on, then the chain refuses to shift from the 12th cog to the 11th cog. I put on a new chain and fine tuned the shifting (on a Shimano Di2 9070) and it seemed to work OK. After a break-in period the issue seems to be resolved.

I paid about $220 for my Sram 1190. I do find the one-piece construction of the 1190 to offer better power transfer than the Dura Ace. Not to mention it's even lighter and more durable than the Dura Ace. So to me the extra money spent is well worth it. I just wish Sram could make the 28 cog the same thickness as the rest. The 28 cog doesn't get used often so being aluminum should be OK.

Thank for the report! I would be using the XG-1190 with DA Di2 9070 so it sounds like the final result is positive.

Any thoughts on using a DA chain vs the SRAM Red22 chain with the XG-1190 cassette? As much as I would like to use as much Shimano as possible it would seen logical to combine the SRAM cassette with a SRAM chain.

I'm using DA chain. Based on the Tour's testing the Shimano DA chain is the most durable chain by a wide margin.

[uraqt]

Some of the real riders around here, that do some real mileage have said their real world experience is that the Campy chains last longer and longer enough that it's make a real difference, then they are going through many chains a year...

I don't ride nearly as much as most people around here and I "think" my campy chain lasted longer than my DA chain, however I can't back it up with facts.

C

[TheDarkInstall]

Do you have to be actually riding in those 2 gears for it to creak, or does it creak in any gear?

Yes, I would imagine so, what with it being an issue with the rivets what connect the two top cogs together.

Is your cassette creaking when using other cogs? If so, which cogs are these?

As for XG-1190; I bought one, tried it with my DA setup and couldn't get it to even shift properly, without the chain noisily rubbing against the next cog, when in the lower gears. Sent it back and got a refund. I can't see how anyone gets this to work, unless they are just putting up with really noisy gears...

[TheDarkInstall]

Made a video explaining what I am going on about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTg4nHW-B-A

Got a cold at the moment, hence the dodgy voice.

[probertsqbe]

@TheDarkInstall nice video btw. How long does this keep the creak at bay for?

[TheDarkInstall]

Hey thanks! I just started that YouTube channel and will be filling it with straight to the point videos like this (sorry for spamming!)

Doing this, I find that if you ride everyday, then once a week is enough. You don't need to take the cassette off once you have done it the first time and can just spray in lube while it is on the bike. Put a cloth on the rim directly under the cassette though, as you don't want lube dripping on to your brake surface if you are using rim brakes.

[petal666]

Can't say in 25 years of cycling I've ever need to lube the splines on the freehub, even with 9000 cassettes. I've gotta say actually, it gets pretty messy working on wheels with stacks of grease all over the freehub. I generally degrease them before doing anything.

[BdaGhisallo]

Can't say in 25 years of cycling I've ever need to lube the splines on the freehub, even with 9000 cassettes. I've gotta say actually, it gets pretty messy working on wheels with stacks of grease all over the freehub. I generally degrease them before doing anything.

100% agreed. Oil and grease are used to lubricate the interface between moving objects. Nothing in the cassette/cassette body interface is designed to move.

[cyclespeed]

Can't say in 25 years of cycling I've ever need to lube the splines on the freehub, even with 9000 cassettes. I've gotta say actually, it gets pretty messy working on wheels with stacks of grease all over the freehub. I generally degrease them before doing anything.

100% agreed. Oil and grease are used to lubricate the interface between moving objects. Nothing in the cassette/cassette body interface is designed to move.

True, and I don't apply grease to my freehub body either, but there are plenty of examples I've seen of creaking coming from non-moving interfaces like;

a) dry pedal axle threads in the crank
b) dry headset bearings moving against the cup
c) Sworks SL5 internal seatpost clamp - if dry, it creaks.

I can't see what harm it would do to lightly grease (or oil) the freehub body if you are getting creaking issues, even though the main source seems to be the rivets.

[XCProMD]

It won't harm lubing. The problem here is that the noise coming from the play in what otherwise has to be a snug fit interface is the least of the problems.

The real enemy here is contact fatigue. That is what sometimes cracks the composite carrier, even if these kind of polymer matrix composite are very resistant to fatigue. But they are also somewhat soft. It's toughness vs yield strength here and then under contact pressure and exposed to many thousands of cycles.

Good thing with fatigue though is that it doesn't necessarily crack open under a high stress cycle, it just need to be a high enough stress in the tip of the crack.

Even so, after knowing of a bloke that broke his teeth against the pavement when his DA cassette failed I steer clear from it. The lightweight cassette offer is wide and deep enough.


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[TheDarkInstall]

I agree with all of the above, and we shouldn't have to do things like apply lube to the rivets, but at the same time, cassettes shouldn't creak like hell, so my video is a solution / fix / hack to the problem, rather than instructions to be followed for every cassette out there.

[petal666]

I be interested though, if the creaking stops with just oiling the rivets as I can't see the point of the spline lube.