Dura Ace 9000 11 speed cassette- rubish product design

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
TurboKoo
Posts: 418
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:55 pm

by TurboKoo

maquisard wrote:KMC (allegedly) do OEM chain manufacture for Shimano.

Never had an issue with a Shimano chain.

KMC doesn't have factories in Japan.
Scott Foil
Shimano 9150
Shimano FCR-9100-P
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evan326
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by evan326

I like my Kia

by Weenie


Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

Quality rant indeed but a bit tough to follow.

SO, do I understand correctly that the best setup was a Campy chain on a Sram 1190 cassette with a Dura Ace derailleur with the jockey wheels shaved to be thin enough to accept the Campy chain? Do I have this right?
Last edited by Mr.Gib on Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

ooo
Posts: 496
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm

by ooo

what about campy 11s chain may need expensive tool to work with pin ?
http://cozybeehive.blogspot.ru/2009/06/ ... ilure.html
'

maquisard
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Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:51 pm
Location: France

by maquisard

TurboKoo wrote:
maquisard wrote:KMC (allegedly) do OEM chain manufacture for Shimano.

Never had an issue with a Shimano chain.

KMC doesn't have factories in Japan.


I didn't say that, did I?

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 957
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

ooo wrote:what about campy 11s chain may need expensive tool to work with pin ?
http://cozybeehive.blogspot.ru/2009/06/ ... ilure.html


Just use the Campy chain with any 11spd quicklink (SRAM, Wippermann, Shimano, KMC, etc.) and you won't need a specific pin + peening chain-tool.

As for the rant...Just lol. Anecdotally I'll say that my KMC X11SL worked best with my Ritchey Swiss Cross Disc and eTap. So 135mm rear and around 433mm long chainstays. My SRAM Red 22 chain worked mostly fine as well, while Shimano's XTR chain and a Wippermann had minor issues backpedaling in the smaller cogs. Could it be the 5.5mm vs 5.62mm inner width made that much a of a difference? I doubt it. Any chainline/rub issues are probably due to my derailleur hanger being very slightly off.

I will agree on one point. The SRAM XG-1190 cassette is worth it. You avoid the creaking, breaking carriers on DA and Ultegra cassettes. You get a lightweight cassette with a freehub interface that won't cause gouging. It's louder because of its shape and mass, but whatever.

CEVelo
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:22 pm

by CEVelo

Yup. Its crap. After trying 4 different DA 9000 cassettes last year, all with same issue, I gave up.
Ultegra is problem free. Easy choice.

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Miller
Posts: 1226
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:54 pm
Location: Reading, UK

by Miller

ooo wrote:what about campy 11s chain may need expensive tool to work with pin ?
http://cozybeehive.blogspot.ru/2009/06/ ... ilure.html


Whataboutery, lol.

That blog is a load of nonsense. The Campag chain tool is painfully expensive, true, but it's not the only way. I install Campag chains in with a normal chain tool and do the peening with a cheap centrepunch, works fine, and there's any number of aftermarket quicklinks.

We digress. Back to rubish product design.

petal666
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by petal666

maquisard wrote:I didn't say that, did I?
Well you did, because Dura-ace chains are made in Japan.

maquisard
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Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:51 pm
Location: France

by maquisard

I didn't say Dura Ace chains were made by KMC.

Dagger9903
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 7:40 pm

by Dagger9903

Belisarius wrote:But it is unmatched exceptional with the XG 1190 SRAM and Campy chain set up.


Why not a campy cassette? Or do you think that would've worked as well?

C36
Posts: 189
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:24 am

by C36

Mr.Gib wrote:Quality rant indeed but a bit tough to follow.

SO, do I understand correctly that the best setup was a Campy chain on a Sram 1190 cassette with a Dura Ace derailleur with the jockey wheels shaved to be thin enough to accept the Campy chain? Do I have this right?

I understood the same, but sounds like quite a nonsense (I have no problem to be wrong... But that's a tough one to believe). That's the first time since 9s times I read that mixing 3 brands, 2 stds, plus a manual grinding improves things...
Note: that doesn't remove the problems DA cassettes have...


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

matty1000
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:56 pm

by matty1000

Hey all, wanted to see if there are any others out there with the creaking (not breaking) issue on Shimano's newer/est version of their DA 11-spd cassette (CS-R9100)? You may know that Shimano did do something about/address the previous version (the CS-9000). However, and this is baffling even Shimano USA (the rep in Boulder, CO to be specific). I am on my 4th and 5th FREE, WARRANTIED CS-R9100 cassettes...and these were supposed to be the fix for the creaking! They double riveted the carbon spline of the 3 cogs mounted on the carbon spline (previous version only had one rivet). It didn't fix the problem! I had/have creaking on both generations at this point. I am about 172 lbs and am a strong rider, but no pro or anything. Anything and everything has been checked out on my 2016 S-Works bike just to make sure it's not anything else on the bike. Shimano has said they are now "very interested with this problem as this one guy in Colorado has received 5 free cassettes"!

Let me know if you have issues. This is specifically the 11-28 cassette, not that it should matter. Creaking ONLY HAPPENS on the top 5 cogs.
Last edited by matty1000 on Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

matty1000
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Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:56 pm

by matty1000

Please disregard this. Don't know how to delete a post. Nope. Read my post today.

by Weenie


jwfinesse
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:51 am
Location: NY

by jwfinesse

As far as I can tell, Shimano didn't make any changes on the carbon carrier structure of 9100 cassette. And my 9100 cassette CREAKS. Mine also creaks on top 5 cogs, although only when I'm using outer chainring. When I'm in the small chainring and using those cogs for climbing, not a peep. When I was on 9000, same situation, same creak. I'm suspecting the less-than-ideal chain line pulling the combined structure of flexy ti cogs, and equally flexy carbon carrier and "rivets" outward, but I can't prove that. Eventually, I broke the carbon carrier and ripped off some of the rivets.

I sensed Shimano had no intention of fixing this problem when I first saw the design (or the lack thereof) of 9100 cassette. And, it has been more than 3 years even counting after the double-rivet running change. So they must've felt they could squeeze another generation's worth of life from this crap of a design. At that point, I almost felt obliged to take part in stacking up the number of warranty claims, so they feel more motivated toward making some sort of change :)

So I'm just gonna use them until it breaks, then warranty it for a new one. I don't even care about cleaning my drive train anymore, since the cassette is not going to see 5,000 miles without breaking. I bought 11-28, 12-28, and 12-25 cassettes for different wheel sets, logging miles and trying to see if which one goes first. It has been an on-going side project of mine. :)
Attachments
IMG_9954r.JPG
9100 cassette
IMG_8560_(2).jpg
broken 9000 cassette

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