I'ts almost a year since i started this post, and i'm happy to be vidicated regarding my problem with my cassettes exploding and also that shimano would have to change the design as they have.
Clearly it wasnt strong enough before so basically they added another rivit by the looks of the pics... hope it works.
The real issue is saftey, as i said at the start... its bad enough to make a rubish product... but its even worse not to own up to it when there is a very good chance somebody can get seriously hurt when the product fails.
lesson to be learend Shimano... looks like you got away with it this time...
Anyway, i still have my sramm cassette and after thousands of km's its still working perfectly.....worth every penny
Dura Ace 9000 11 speed cassette- rubish product design
Moderator: robbosmans
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Belisarius
- Posts: 79
- Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:36 pm
My bike shop owners have raced for years and customized pro bikes for 50 years combined. They already have concluded this is a fundamental DA 9000 design flaw. The solution can only be a new design (cassette and possibly derailleur). Hopefully, not the shifter itself or that it even worse.
As for the new L Gen DA cassette, I already wrote above that I got it 18 July, and it was worse than the single pin one. Not just the flexing, but also its center of gravity is higher due to the double pins and raced it one event, then sent it back to Shimano.
Bike is at the shop. Am trying SRAM. If I have to go Super Record I must pay and rebuild my wheel.
As for the new L Gen DA cassette, I already wrote above that I got it 18 July, and it was worse than the single pin one. Not just the flexing, but also its center of gravity is higher due to the double pins and raced it one event, then sent it back to Shimano.
Bike is at the shop. Am trying SRAM. If I have to go Super Record I must pay and rebuild my wheel.
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campagnolo321
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:17 pm
After I returned my 11-23 9000 cassette to my local shop they made enqueries with the local distributor for my country and was copied in on a reply from one of the head guys, below is a copy of the mail but with names removed for obvious reasons..........
"To be clear, there has been no recall or similar on these cassettes and the number of creaking cassettes that have been returned to us is very low. If they creak, warranty will replace them but we are not replacing brand new cassettes that more than likely do not suffer from this problem, especially 11-23s as the ones we have seen creak have been 11-28.
Shimano are continuously improving stuff, usually with public knowledge. It just happens in this case that it got on the internet"
............ I'm now riding my replacement which is the same single rivit design, will let yee know how long it lasts.
Rubber side down
Rich
"To be clear, there has been no recall or similar on these cassettes and the number of creaking cassettes that have been returned to us is very low. If they creak, warranty will replace them but we are not replacing brand new cassettes that more than likely do not suffer from this problem, especially 11-23s as the ones we have seen creak have been 11-28.
Shimano are continuously improving stuff, usually with public knowledge. It just happens in this case that it got on the internet"
............ I'm now riding my replacement which is the same single rivit design, will let yee know how long it lasts.
Rubber side down
Rich
Haha, I've had 2x 12-23 cassettes 'creak' with one of them breaking. My 12-28 has been fine but I rarely ride it.
Indeed. I meant 12-25.
I'm on my second 11-25 due to a creak with the first one, already my second one is creaking too. I think we need to think about trying to shame Shimano into doing something through their social media pages, either that or have somebody with more litigious tendencies (any lawyers here?) that may want to chase some sort of class action.
I already had a bad accident last year with a pedal that failed due to a known design issue, and I don't want to go through a similar crash again. At least when the pedal that broke I was treated very well by the manufacturer concerned (will go as far as to say it wasn't Shimano). In my pedal accident I was extremely lucky not to have been run over by the car behind me and also the fact that the side that I didn't veer into oncoming traffic.
I just wish Shimano would admit to the problem and I cant believe they aren't admitting to this. Also that they are willing to take the gamble that somebody wont hurt themselves badly. Totally irresponsible!
After reading that the new Cassette is likely no better, I think I'm going to be trying to seek a refund along with getting a SRAM 1190.
Shimano, if you are reading this, shame on you!!!!
I already had a bad accident last year with a pedal that failed due to a known design issue, and I don't want to go through a similar crash again. At least when the pedal that broke I was treated very well by the manufacturer concerned (will go as far as to say it wasn't Shimano). In my pedal accident I was extremely lucky not to have been run over by the car behind me and also the fact that the side that I didn't veer into oncoming traffic.
I just wish Shimano would admit to the problem and I cant believe they aren't admitting to this. Also that they are willing to take the gamble that somebody wont hurt themselves badly. Totally irresponsible!
After reading that the new Cassette is likely no better, I think I'm going to be trying to seek a refund along with getting a SRAM 1190.
Shimano, if you are reading this, shame on you!!!!
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Belisarius
- Posts: 79
- Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:36 pm
Is Shimano aware of your particular case/set up? that is critical in how to evaluate their response. Or your store? DA has 3 years warranty, the entire DA system.
One of the venues Shimano is pursuing in my case- and the effort and turnaroud time are outstanding, is the shifter.The 9000 vs 9001 shifter articles, etc, the 9001 was redesigned similarly to Ultegra 6800 but with a better, less dragging cable routing. Reason they are pursuing this with me, is that, if indeed my particular 9000 is suffering from the cable routing issue (off sync etc), the highest gears that can be off sync could be are 18-21T- which would coincide with the carbon cluster. The reason grinding would be less heard on 23 or 25 are physical, as the disks are big enough for the chain to not be too close to the lower cog and grind IF THE SHIFTER IS DEFECTIVE.
One could therefore have a bad combination of AN OFFSET shifter keeping the chain between gears in the central portion of the cassette, the soft carbon spyder cogs. But unless the problem is evaluated, not even I can be fully sure it is the casette if indeed my 9000 shifter went bad two weeks after installation.
One thing that came out of my situation, is that, although I thought my DA9000 was shifting fast, it was not- not compared to other 9000s. i thought it was. So off the bat, there is some lag in the shifting unit.
I also heard that editors from BikeRadar are aware and are also following up the issue. With Shimano. From a media perspective, awareness is out there.
As such, I do not recommend legal venues particularly if Shimano has not had a chance to fully evaluate the defective systems on a case by case basis. There are, out there, thousands of DA casettes with DA9000 that never creak or grind. At the same time, some DA9000s had some issues and 9001 arrived late 2013 and this year. Case and point- I never had this issues the first two weeks (900 kms). So did the casettes suddenly go bad as i gained power (and flexed and droped the chain) or did my 9000 fail, off-synced those cogs, guaranteeing the problem or a chain drop under load?
All the aspects must be investigated. In my case, everything except the shifter and derailleur has been investigated and changed.
SRAM: no doubt the spacing on the SRAM, as well as the one piece construction, may help alleviate the noise on those cogs. But the casette is as expensive, nearly, as a new shifter. And the cassette could mask a defective shifter only due to better construction, but the shifter may still be compromised.
If checking the forums, one will find some type of anoying issue with Super Record, SRAM Red, etc, issues affecting a small percentile of users. Most times, Campy and SRAM and Shimano improve their product to solve those issues as well. But if 90% ort more of the delivered system work to spec, that perhaps meets the industrial QC. We may be ones of the 10%.
Will update this forum once I have a few hundred kms on the 9001.
One of the venues Shimano is pursuing in my case- and the effort and turnaroud time are outstanding, is the shifter.The 9000 vs 9001 shifter articles, etc, the 9001 was redesigned similarly to Ultegra 6800 but with a better, less dragging cable routing. Reason they are pursuing this with me, is that, if indeed my particular 9000 is suffering from the cable routing issue (off sync etc), the highest gears that can be off sync could be are 18-21T- which would coincide with the carbon cluster. The reason grinding would be less heard on 23 or 25 are physical, as the disks are big enough for the chain to not be too close to the lower cog and grind IF THE SHIFTER IS DEFECTIVE.
One could therefore have a bad combination of AN OFFSET shifter keeping the chain between gears in the central portion of the cassette, the soft carbon spyder cogs. But unless the problem is evaluated, not even I can be fully sure it is the casette if indeed my 9000 shifter went bad two weeks after installation.
One thing that came out of my situation, is that, although I thought my DA9000 was shifting fast, it was not- not compared to other 9000s. i thought it was. So off the bat, there is some lag in the shifting unit.
I also heard that editors from BikeRadar are aware and are also following up the issue. With Shimano. From a media perspective, awareness is out there.
As such, I do not recommend legal venues particularly if Shimano has not had a chance to fully evaluate the defective systems on a case by case basis. There are, out there, thousands of DA casettes with DA9000 that never creak or grind. At the same time, some DA9000s had some issues and 9001 arrived late 2013 and this year. Case and point- I never had this issues the first two weeks (900 kms). So did the casettes suddenly go bad as i gained power (and flexed and droped the chain) or did my 9000 fail, off-synced those cogs, guaranteeing the problem or a chain drop under load?
All the aspects must be investigated. In my case, everything except the shifter and derailleur has been investigated and changed.
SRAM: no doubt the spacing on the SRAM, as well as the one piece construction, may help alleviate the noise on those cogs. But the casette is as expensive, nearly, as a new shifter. And the cassette could mask a defective shifter only due to better construction, but the shifter may still be compromised.
If checking the forums, one will find some type of anoying issue with Super Record, SRAM Red, etc, issues affecting a small percentile of users. Most times, Campy and SRAM and Shimano improve their product to solve those issues as well. But if 90% ort more of the delivered system work to spec, that perhaps meets the industrial QC. We may be ones of the 10%.
Will update this forum once I have a few hundred kms on the 9001.
just got off the phone with Shimano,
They are well trained I heard this about 5 times.....
"To be clear, there has been no recall or similar on these cassettes and the number of breaking cassettes that have been returned to us is very low."
Have no idea what to do...
C
They are well trained I heard this about 5 times.....
"To be clear, there has been no recall or similar on these cassettes and the number of breaking cassettes that have been returned to us is very low."
Have no idea what to do...
C
what about this : )
https://www.saferproducts.gov/CPSRMSPub ... ident.aspx
Report Number: 20140812-F0F14-2147442012
https://www.saferproducts.gov/CPSRMSPub ... ident.aspx
Report Number: 20140812-F0F14-2147442012
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Great Prices ✓ Broad Selection ✓ Worldwide Delivery ✓
www.starbike.com
