HOT: Active* forum members generally gain 5% discount at starbike.com store!
Weight Weenies
* FAQ    * Search    * Trending Topics
* Login   * Register
HOME Listings Blog NEW Articles FAQ Contact About




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 347 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 ... 24  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:18 pm
Posts: 71
Not real sure which gear I was in when it broke, it's an 11-25 cassette, I'm guessing in my 17 or 19?

The bike was perfectly dialed. I've spent nearly a decade as a mechanic in some very high-end shops. I've recently had this bike dialed by mechanics wrenching for national-level elite teams.

The problem isn't a mal-adjusted drivetrain, I can promise you that.

The first of my cassettes that exploded was one of the first available in the US. Did that have something to do with it? I don't know, maybe. But when I spoke to Shimano about that one the tech rep didn't seem to be too terribly surprised.

Since posting the photo to friends I've had a few others pipe up about this happening to them. At the end of the day now though, we're at what, 10-15 cassettes that have this problem? Can you imagine how many 9000 cassettes are out there?

This still seems to be a relatively rare problem, but it's certainly not isolated.


Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:25 am 


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:50 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Posts: 122
Location: Loveland, CO
104 wrote:
At the end of the day now though, we're at what, 10-15 cassettes that have this problem? Can you imagine how many 9000 cassettes are out there?

This still seems to be a relatively rare problem, but it's certainly not isolated.


You are not counting the broken ones occurring on pro teams. When they break something they are unlikely to report it here.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:09 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 4:33 am
Posts: 742
pdlpsher1 wrote:
104 wrote:
At the end of the day now though, we're at what, 10-15 cassettes that have this problem? Can you imagine how many 9000 cassettes are out there?

This still seems to be a relatively rare problem, but it's certainly not isolated.


You are not counting the broken ones occurring on pro teams. When they break something they are unlikely to report it here.


Please. We also aren't counting the broken ones belonging to illiterate cyclists who can't write complaints. And ones that broke in Tibet and whose owners' letters haven't traveled by yak to a national post office yet. If a pro team, which will be sponsored, has any significant number of cassette failures, we'll certainly hear about it and you can bet that Shimano will.

Remember the SRAM Red front shifter problems? More of a pro problem than an amateur one, yet we heard plenty about it. Simple fact is, there's a very small number of failures and so far what we've heard they've been clustered with a much smaller group of users. Let's see all the Shimano-sponsored pro bikes being built with Ultegra cassettes instead of Dura Ace, like SRAM Red bikes were built with lower-level SRAM front shifters, and then your statement at least makes sense.

Nothing says that this isn't a serious equipment failure when it happens, or that Shimano isn't going to be looking at it. It just means that figuring the cause will be difficult and any statistical failure expert will say that there was something about the bikes or the wrenches on those bikes that was probably at fault -- it's the only statistically valid explanation for why you get repeat failures for a very few individual riders. There isn't enough information to say exactly why the cassettes DID fail, but there IS enough information to say that statistically the cassettes are meeting realistic reliability expectations.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:23 pm
Posts: 18
Hi Eric, I cant be sure what gear I was on at the time (I'm sure there are a few pro's out there who've used that phrase before :wink: )...

but I wasn't changing gears, I was in the gear at the time it broke.

You have an excellent point in that a cassette should be able to deal with other minor forces and not break apart.

Simple fact is however, I've broken three DA cassettes.
I've got SRAM cassette on now and it works perfectly, gears change precisely... absolutely nothing wrong and all I did was put it on(myself) and adjust the gears. That's it.

As I said before there are no issues now with the bike now and there wasn't before hand, bought a SRAM cassette and problem solved... but if you simply can not accept that this product is a bad design after you break one... Try you luck with the following tips from 11.4

"I'd honestly suggest that you have the bike hangar and drive train alignment checked by someone who really knows what they're doing (preferably a good frame builder). Go to a different chain and intentionally change the number of links. Change the b-screw setting. And so on. Be sure the free hub isn't sticking at all, nor the rear derailleur jockey wheels -- fastest way to get this kind of failure is if a couple links fold up and jam on the cassette right above the upper jockey wheel -- you'll have a failure essentially without warning even if the cause has been there all along or since a change induced the scenario. My point is that there's a way to tear a cassette spider apart, and it can come about from a combination of issues that is almost impossible to diagnose or predict. The cassette is generally reliable and riders shouldn't be hesitant about using them, but if you do start to have problems with one, I'd look at the whole drivetrain and its geometry to see what is causing this"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:53 am
Posts: 345
Not a Shimano guy so I wouldn't have noticed in any pix, but is it possible that the Pro teams are/have been using Ultegra cassettes?

C


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:18 pm
Posts: 71
@11.4 "any statistical failure expert will say that there was something about the bikes or the wrenches on those bikes that was probably at fault"

The problem with that analysis is that the first cassette broke while on my steel bike with King R45 wheels and the second one broke on my carbon bike with ENVE wheels. The first bike I built myself, top to bottom, the second bike was built by an elite-level mechanic who makes a living being contracted by professional teams (continental and Pro Tour) as a mechanic, top to bottom.

The steel bike is 9070 Di2, the carbon bike is 9000 mechanical.

Both were using Dura-Ace chains.

Before these two cassettes, I've never had a cassette fail in anyway (other than my expectations of reasonable noise control, which the first-gen Red cassette failed miserably).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Posts: 122
Location: Loveland, CO
uraqt wrote:
Not a Shimano guy so I wouldn't have noticed in any pix, but is it possible that the Pro teams are/have been using Ultegra cassettes?

C


Since the Ultegra cassette also uses a carbon spider their only choices would be either Campy or Sram. And this would likely violate their sponsorship agreement with Shimano.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Posts: 122
Location: Loveland, CO
104 wrote:
@11.4 "any statistical failure expert will say that there was something about the bikes or the wrenches on those bikes that was probably at fault"

The problem with that analysis is that the first cassette broke while on my steel bike with King R45 wheels and the second one broke on my carbon bike with ENVE wheels. The first bike I built myself, top to bottom, the second bike was built by an elite-level mechanic who makes a living being contracted by professional teams (continental and Pro Tour) as a mechanic, top to bottom.

The steel bike is 9070 Di2, the carbon bike is 9000 mechanical.

Both were using Dura-Ace chains.

Before these two cassettes, I've never had a cassette fail in anyway (other than my expectations of reasonable noise control, which the first-gen Red cassette failed miserably).


11.4 would say since YOU broke two in a row it must be user error :mrgreen:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:18 pm
Posts: 71
I agree, it IS "user error". This user shouldn't have put a second one on in the first place.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:40 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 6:29 am
Posts: 35
CS-9001... Coming to a bike shop near you...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:01 pm
Posts: 1560
9001 IS coming. Shifters at least. Will be here shortly.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:14 am
Posts: 963
Location: Sweden
When will people learn, never, never, EVER, buy first generation of anything. Ever. It's bound to be flawed. :)

Oh, the list of self-imploding first generation bike products is so long, bike manufacturers just fix them quick enough that we don't remember them later on. But think back over the last 10, 15, 20 years... That list of parts and standards is a mile long.

Remember early HollowTechII? Yeah, changing bearings every third month is the new black. Haha.

_________________
Roadbike
Planet X Stealth w/ drop bars

Mountainbike
Van Nicholas Zion Ti


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:25 pm
Posts: 1
I have exactly the same issue. Brand new 9000 Di2 drivetrain and the cassette in the top three gears where the carbon body attaches all creak under torque.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:55 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:16 pm
Posts: 166
Not happy at all about the 9001 revision of the shifters with no announcement or list of issues fixed by Shimano. Imagine any modern software company doing the same thing!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Posts: 1800
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
Actually we do it all the time.

But you are right to complain about Shimano doing it.


Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:57 pm 


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 347 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 ... 24  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Method01, MisterEd, Timmy269 and 41 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

   Similar Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. SRAM 11 speed chain with Dura-ace 9000?

in Road

boots2000

2

351

Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:21 am

dynaserve View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Shimano Dura Ace 9000 Shifter Issue (& 6800 cassette moan)

in Road

dynaserve

7

1772

Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:46 pm

n808 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Miche Supertype instead of DA 9000 cassette

in Road

wheelsONfire

6

550

Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:43 pm

lannes View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Chainring design and interaction with latest 11 speed

in Road

Omiar

10

1104

Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:13 pm

Raineman View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. BB386 -> Dura Ace 9000 crank

in Road

JohanSten

9

792

Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:06 pm

highdraw View the latest post


It is currently Thu Dec 18, 2014 2:43 pm

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Advertising   –  FAQ   –  Contact   –  Convert   –  About

© Weight Weenies 2000-2013
hosted by starbike.com


How to get rid of these ads? Just register!


Powered by phpBB