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Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 6 posts ] 
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:03 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:23 am
Posts: 269
Hi all,
Is there some known suppliers for the dodgy/fake Pinarello Dogmas around?

I ask not because I want to profit on the misery of others, nor do I want to peddle fake goods, but I'm doing some groundwork on where some friends "genuine" dogmas have been sourced from. Unfortunately, it looks like they have been unwittingly had, by a deal "too good to be true"...

These frames have the tell tale signs of fakeness, such as standard English BBs, poor finishes, and symmetrical "asymmetrical" chain stays

Any links would be grateful...

Cheers


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Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:03 am 


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:05 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:32 pm
Posts: 7412
Location: Los Angeles / Glendale, California
eBay
Alibaba

... and lock thread?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:51 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:23 am
Posts: 269
prendrefeu wrote:
eBay
Alibaba

... and lock thread?

thanks... Apologies if u think the topic isn't thread worthy...


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:00 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:32 pm
Posts: 7412
Location: Los Angeles / Glendale, California
Nah, no problem.

It's nothing personal, it's just that the topic has been covered before - a lot - and while most everyone largely agrees that the knockoffs suck, the conversation typically ends up going into issues of pricing, "the death of the industry," sometimes jingoist attitudes, politics, and other things. Inevitably there will be blanket statements about regions of the world, people, and the lopping in 'open mold' frames into 'knockoffs' and so forth. It gets messy quickly, best to lock it early and point to older threads which pretty much cover all aspects of the topic, I think. But that's how I feel about it, others may want to have the anger pile up again.

I dunno, maybe we should have another rage thread? :)

It will be harder and harder to find the knockoffs, thankfully, as law enforcement is starting to crack down on these things. For example one resource used to be CyclingYong - but look what happened to them! :twisted:

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:28 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:49 pm
Posts: 1581
Location: Near Horgen, Switzerland
I've been following this closely. The quality of the fake bikes in general have been increasing and this issue should be on the minds of industry people. The latest Dogma fakes in particular are much harder to pick out, but typical signs are:

Used to be:
- Round seatpost on Dogma painted bike
- Neco headset and non-Dogma branded seat clamp
- Poor paint
- Mis-aligned stickers
- Wrong bb cable guide
- Front mech hanger attached with 2 screws not 4 rivets
- Angular contact bearings in HS (used to be standard bearings on real one) and no aluminium insert on fork top
- No sparkle paint
- Not fully asymmetrical
- English bb


Now:
- Not 1k weave, although some now are 1k, but identifiable as they have more black paint covering the junctions than the real thing
- Think 2 ports slightly different shape / alignment
- 4 rivet front mech hangers do not have paint on the rivets
- Minor dust under clear coat, but paint otherwise pretty good. Sparkle paint not sparkly enough.
- No aluminium insert on fork top
- Bosses on down tube for Di2 battery (Pinarello offers a massive aluminium bracket, so this is actually an improvement)
- A few have serial numbers, but whether they are clever enough to match colour / size / year I don't know.
- Asymmetrical, but not quite as "pumped up" as real version
- English bb threads, or bb30 also available

I looked on ebay the other day and spotted 2 fakes marketed as real based on the points above which I reported. In one case the seller told me he bought it direct from Pinarello. Given it came with a 3k weave and Pinarello does not deal direct I doubt he was telling the truth. Personally I'd not buy a second hand frame without detailed photos of all the above areas, plus receipts and a check of the the serial number with Pinarello.

I don't think the "forks made of newspaper" stories really help, as these stories are outweighed on other forums by many people who have successfully built and ride these bikes. I'd quite like to see Tour magazine buy a truckload of lookalikes (BMC, Specialized, Cippolini and other lookalikes exist) and then test them to ISO standards and publish the results. Either it would show that these bikes are highly variable and should not be touched, or it would show that the fakes are consistently similar to mid range carbon frames at the same price point.

I am also surprised that Pinarello does not fight this by a) making their top end frames a more competitive weight b) updating their product c) adding features like holograms, authentication numbers and so on so that people can see what's what.

Bottom line is that this can't be good for the mainstream manufacturers' business. Simple rule though is that if someone is offering a full bike with Di2 for $2500 then only the Di2 bits are likely to be real...


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Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:28 am 


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:22 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:25 am
Posts: 885
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Folks ... for the most part these frames aren't fakes. They are takes on already established brands. People tend to know that. The word 'Chinarello' where the word 'Pinarello' should be is a bit of a giveaway.

But faking when it does exist is bad. Which is a shame because a lot of these Chinese frames are good enough in their own right.


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