Weight Weenies

r_mutt wrote:we've all seen that. that has no stack and no reach.

Here is what I calculated for the Propel (in mm), making certain assumptions (68 mm BB drop, 367 A-C fork length):

Size Stack Reach
XS 514 372
S 531 378
M 549 387
M/L 568 391
L 582 401
XL 596 411

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theloper wrote:Was wondering why Velo News didn't include the BMC TMR01 in their aero test?

Because BMC wouldn't send us one once we told them it was going in the tunnel.

VNTech wrote:

theloper wrote:Was wondering why Velo News didn't include the BMC TMR01 in their aero test?

Because BMC wouldn't send us one once we told them it was going in the tunnel.

Hmmmmmmmm.........very suspect if you ask me. Kind of strange that you never see any wind tunnel data on this bike. Also if you have noticed team BMC team members almost never use it. They are all almost always on the SLR01. Where as the team Belkin guys rode the Propel in every stage of the tour except the flat TT's.

theloper- the reason why no one else uses a full rear cut out is that it makes the ride incredibly harsh. Very difficult to engineer any compliance into that shape.

edit- I reckon the S3 is going to be far more popular than the S5 for this reason....90% as aero and probably more comfy.

After the VNTech response, I say go with the Propel, out of principle .

Giant challenged Specialized Venge for a wind-tunnel smackdown, and Specialized ignored them. You don't do that unless you're confident of your bike.

I've not read the VN article. I was going to give up my subscription when the "VN Labs" articles first appeared. That hooked me for another year. But then they lapsed several issues without tests, and I let the subscription lapse. I'll try to find this article.

On ride quality, I'm not convinced "stiffer = better". All other things equal, a stiff drive train is better, but I think a bit of torsional compliance overall provides a contribution to comfort. So I would consider the ride quality issue.

Weight: not so important in Florida.

theloper wrote:

VNTech wrote:

theloper wrote:Was wondering why Velo News didn't include the BMC TMR01 in their aero test?

Because BMC wouldn't send us one once we told them it was going in the tunnel.

Hmmmmmmmm.........very suspect if you ask me. Kind of strange that you never see any wind tunnel data on this bike. Also if you have noticed team BMC team members almost never use it. They are all almost always on the SLR01. Where as the team Belkin guys rode the Propel in every stage of the tour except the flat TT's.

Wasn't Cadel on it a bit lately?

Anyway, does make you wonder. The only thing I don't like about the TMR is the flat top tube.

The new Felt AR FRD is a pretty badass looking frame, they are going to release proof soon of wind data against competitors.

Pretty impressed, but you need Electronic only for that frame.

Which is ironic, as most people who love the Propel also love the fact there's finally (or at least, again) a Giant with a flat TT

I think we'll test the new Felt, S3, BMC (new PR folks, maybe better luck), one other next year. I'm making those lists now. Requests?

Only question remains: do we go with a mannikin or not. I'd prefer to, but we lose the ability to look back at previous tests and compare. Might have to just throw the Propel in again as a benchmark.

VNTech wrote:I think we'll test the new Felt, S3, BMC (new PR folks, maybe better luck), one other next year. I'm making those lists now. Requests?

Only question remains: do we go with a mannikin or not. I'd prefer to, but we lose the ability to look back at previous tests and compare. Might have to just throw the Propel in again as a benchmark.

Please include the S5, and Propel for comparison. Also I would love to see one of the Zipp Aero road bars or Enve Aero Road bars as a comparison to one of the stock round bars to see the difference that could make.

One other thing....is there a copy of the Propel vs. S5 vs. others test online somewhere? I understand if there isn't, and if there isn't what month did it appear in/how can I get a copy?

Caley, if you can add these in I'm sure many would be super grateful. We really need to see an 'ultimate' shootout in one run, and doing this would put VeloNews at the pinnacle among competing publications.

-Merida Reacto
-Specialized Venge
-Santa Cruz Roadster (if you can get one, this would be interesting: take an older aero frame then fit it with whatever you can in 'aero' matching the average total MSRP of the others on the list here, test it. This might be the most fascinating result, I think. This frame existed before 'aero road frame' was even a concept to other mfgs. Use parts scoured from eBay, craigslist, or smaller companies like November Bicycles. The idea is to pretend you're "Joe Schmoe" making the best out of a limited budget. Very 'reality' based testing.)
-Scott Foil
-Simplon Nexio
-Blue AC1(sl)
-Avanti Corsa DR
-Canyon Aeroad CF
-Storck Aernario

-???

Time is money in the wind tunnel, and given that Merida, Simplon, Avanti and Canyon are not well known and/or unavailable in the US, I don't think VN needs to bother testing them. VN has previously tested Specialized Venge, Scott Foil, Litespeed C1, Cervelo S5, Ridley Noah, Felt AR1 (previous model), Blue AC1SL, Cervelo S3 (previous model), BH G6, Trek Madone, and Giant Propel.

To me, it makes most sense to test the new Felt AR, new Cervelo S3, and BMC TMR. And maybe Neil Pryde Alize and Storck Aernario. I think it would also be interesting to test an older skinny tubed bike for comparison (I will donate my steel bike for the experiment ).

Open to any an all suggestions, but yes cost is a factor. We pay for these tests. Will be doing some other tests while we're there, too, and need to keep everything as tight as possible.

Plus, this is for print not web so space is at a premium. Has to be four bikes.

Giant was pleased with the last aero road test, I imagine they may have the pdf somewhere on their website. I know they're using it in Interbike promo materials. If you can't find it there, you can download the digital version of the magazine from the Apple store. It's in the September 2013 issue, the one with Froome on the cover.

One other note: we are compiling all the 2013 VeloLab stuff into a single digital mag thing at the moment as well. I have no idea how much it will cost, not my department. Probably a few bucks. But it has all the tests we've done this year in it, everything from the aero road test to endurance bikes to the lube test we did way back in January. When it goes live I'll let you all know.

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Caley, i dont know if this test will take a lot of time and preparation, but a compilation of 'aero road' helmets test would be utterly useful. No publications have done this. It's time to put those shiny new lids in perspective. I am sure many readers would appreciate such a test.