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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:18 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:02 pm
Posts: 140
Location: florida
Have narrowed my choice of my next build for the flat roads of Florida. Cant decide what one to chose......has anyone ridden both. Will be built with DA 9000 and Enve 6.7 carbon clinchers. Have yet to see any wind tunnel data on the TMR01. The Propel seems to be the current aero bench mark according to the newest issue of Velo News besting the Cervelo S5 in the tunnel (the S5 was the previous wind tunnel bench mark). The Propel is much stiffer than the S5 and in turn better power transfer.

If anyone owns or has ridden either or both I would appreciate some feedback.


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Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:18 am 


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:12 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:35 pm
Posts: 9
Do not need to quote the above



Have not ridden the Aero bikes you had listed above but have experience with the Scott foil. Can highly recommend it has a stiff, very responsive and most importantly great looking bike. A Team issue frame with the lightweight carbon is sub 1kg


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:59 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:45 pm
Posts: 353
Location: UK
Which ever you get it will be fantastic with DA9000 and enve! my mony would go on the propel! the blue/black scheme looks awesome.

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Madone Five Series 2013
Shimano Dura-Ace 9000
Mavic Cosmic SLE 2013


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:06 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:45 pm
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Location: UK
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Madone Five Series 2013
Shimano Dura-Ace 9000
Mavic Cosmic SLE 2013


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:06 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:51 pm
Posts: 211
I'm riding the TMR01, which I think rides fantastically well. I'm coming from a line of Time bikes (VX, VXR, RXR) and this frame is much stiffer, so much more of the power seems to propel the bike forward, it also seems to hold speed better and I find myself often travelling a few kph faster than I usually do. The front end feels very solid and I felt confident descending on it from the first ride onwards. I've only done 2 and 3 hour rides so I cannot say if the extra stiffness translates into extra fatigue. The built in brakes work very well: they are powerful, but they lack the feel and modulation of DA or Record calipers.

I will confess that it is not the most straightforward bike to build and maintain. I have been building and maintaining my own race bikes for 25 years yet I could only spend a few hours at a time working on this before I got a frustrated with it. As such it took me a week to put it together.
Internal cable routeing is a pit of a pain because there are no cable channels moulded into the inside of the tubes. In fact getting the rear brake cable to exit in the right place requires the BB to be removed. Of course changing the outer cable isn't something I'll need to do very often. Ditto the front cable is tricky too. The seatpost binder wedge is innovative and works well, but installing it and the seatpost is very fiddly.
The brakes are a challenge: adjustment is a bit tricky (requires 2mm and 4 mm allen keys and Torx T25) and setting them up optimally for rim width means installing washers between the pad holders and the caliper arms. Hence all sets wheels really need to be the same width. Also all wheels need to be of the same material because to change brake blocks requires loosening the pad holders and that means removing the crankset for the rear right pad. As such I now ride carbon rims exclusively. Again after the initial investment this may not be such an issue (although carbon pads can wear out quickly in the rain). Maybe EE pad holders would be the solution.
The most significant issue IMHO is the seatpost. All saddle adjustment is via a single 13mm nut on the very top of the post, so getting saddle position correct is a very time consuming affair.

Having said all of that ... no bike has ever put as big a smile on my face, or made me just get out and ride for the sheer fun of it as much as this BMC.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:23 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:53 am
Posts: 329
What is the deal with the spacers in that pic? Are those some sort of aero spacers that come with the propel? Any geo chart for the propel with stack and reach?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:46 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:02 pm
Posts: 140
Location: florida
tinozee wrote:
What is the deal with the spacers in that pic? Are those some sort of aero spacers that come with the propel? Any geo chart for the propel with stack and reach?


They are proprietary shaped steer tube spacers for Giants 1 piece carbon bar/stem combo.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:12 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:14 am
Posts: 1229
Location: by Crystal Springs (Sawyer Creek Trail)
I'd go with the Propel hands down. That said, in the Velonews test, what handlebars were tested on the Propel?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:48 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:29 am
Posts: 1
Hi,

I haven't had a chance to ride the new Giant Propel yet, hope to get a chance at Interbike later this month. In any case, I'm the (very) happy owner of a 2013 TMR01, with a nice selection of components. For a reference, below is a quick list of goodies:

    TMR01 Size 48 (went down a full size)
    Campagnolo Super Record 11 Ergo Shifters
    Campagnolo Super Record 11 Rear Der
    SRAM Red Yaw braze-on Front Der (Yup, this is the smart set-up for folks running Q Rings and Campy shifters--check it up!)
    Far and Near Chain Catcher in red
    KCNC Cermic Der Pulleys in red
    Rotor 3d+ Cranks
    Rotor QXL Compact 53x38 chainrings
    Far and Near Chainring Bolts in red
    Enduro BB86-to-BB386 press-in bottom bracket
    Zipp Vuka Sprint 42cm Aero Drop Bar
    Zipp 145 Carbon Stem 130mm
    Zipp Black Handlebar Tape
    Zipp 404 Firecrest Tubular Front Wheel (custom red color hub end caps)
    Zipp 808 Firecrest Tubular Rear Wheel w/ Campy Freehub (custom red color hub end caps)
    Recon 11sp Titanium 11-23 Cassette (Shifting is not bad, 8 out of 10 for performance)
    Zipp Tangente 23mm Tubular Tires (Ah yes, the road feel!)
    Stans No Tubes Tire Sealant (Yeah, this stuff works!)
    Time Xpresso 12 Ti Carbon Pedals (Meh, they're ok, but could be better)
    Selle Italia SLK Kit Carbonio Flow saddle in Black (Light and comfy)
    Alligator i-Link cable housing in black (Hmmm... why do I keep going back to these again?!)
    XL Lab Aero TT water bottle and carbon cage (Note to self, do not use round bottles on an aero bike, 'tis not cool.)

Now, as far as ease of build, I'd put this bike in the TT bike, one off custom difficulty of assembly and set-up. As someone who has been in the bike industry in the past and worked on bikes on and off for over 25yrs I'd say this bike was a total PITA to build. This is not a knock on prep, finish or quality of the frameset. No, not at all, the frame, fork and seat post are really top notch!

However, the cable routing and linear brake set up were a complete bear. To complicate matters, using segmented style cable housing like i-Links just makes it harder. In any case, after a really late night noodling cables through and feeding the segments of housing continuously through the frame I finally got it together. All in, it took me almost a full weekend, working in the evening, to build the entire bike and get it close to dialed. To give a bit of context, the majority of that time was spent on the cabling, brake and der set up. (It helped I was drinking some Leffe Blonde of course!)

OK, so now to the important stuff.... The ride, ahh the RIDE... It's fast, really FAST. It's not the first nice bike I have owned. In fact, it's not the second. (For context, some of my recent rigs have included a Cervelo S1, Cervelo S3, Cervelo R5 VWD, Fuji Altamira LTD, Fuji SST 1.0, Fuji SL1, Litespeed C1r, Calfee Dragonfly Pro, Cannondale Super Six HM - still one of my favs, Cannondale Caad 10, and more.) And, it likely won't be my last nice bike, but, boy it sure is one of the most fun to ride. On the flats and rollers it is by far the fastest road rig I have ever had. It's likely the sum of the parts that makes this one of the fastest bikes I have ridden. Although I'd suggest a good portion of the aero advantage is the frame, some of the credit is also due to the great position. (NOTE: I went down a full size to get the proper stem drop and reach.)

In short, if you're looking for a killer ride, that is stiff, aero, relatively comfortable, and something most folks don't own or maybe haven't seen outside of magazines then by all means go for the BMC. You won't be disappointed!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:40 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:05 pm
Posts: 258
tinozee wrote:
Any geo chart for the propel with stack and reach?



Anyone seen stack and reach yet?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:36 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:02 pm
Posts: 140
Location: florida
JamieL wrote:
tinozee wrote:
Any geo chart for the propel with stack and reach?



Anyone seen stack and reach yet?



Size

Head Angle

Seat Angle

Top Tube

Head Tube

Chain Stay

Wheel Base

Standover Height

Centimeters Degrees Degrees Centimeters Centimeters Centimeters Centimeters Inches
XS/46.5 71.0 74.5 51.5 12.0 40.5 97.2 29.2
S/50.0 72.0 73.5 53.5 13.5 40.5 97.4 30.2
M/52.0 73.0 73.0 55.5 15.0 40.5 98.0 31.1
ML/54.5 73.0 72.5 57.0 17.0 40.5 98.6 32.0
L/57.5 73.0 72.5 58.5 18.5 40.5 100.1 32.9
XL/59.5 73.0 72.0 60.5 20.0 40.5 102.1 33.4


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:05 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:33 pm
Posts: 241
theloper wrote:
JamieL wrote:
tinozee wrote:
Any geo chart for the propel with stack and reach?



Anyone seen stack and reach yet?



Size

Head Angle

Seat Angle

Top Tube

Head Tube

Chain Stay

Wheel Base

Standover Height

Centimeters Degrees Degrees Centimeters Centimeters Centimeters Centimeters Inches
XS/46.5 71.0 74.5 51.5 12.0 40.5 97.2 29.2
S/50.0 72.0 73.5 53.5 13.5 40.5 97.4 30.2
M/52.0 73.0 73.0 55.5 15.0 40.5 98.0 31.1
ML/54.5 73.0 72.5 57.0 17.0 40.5 98.6 32.0
L/57.5 73.0 72.5 58.5 18.5 40.5 100.1 32.9
XL/59.5 73.0 72.0 60.5 20.0 40.5 102.1 33.4




we've all seen that. that has no stack and no reach.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:43 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:08 pm
Posts: 194
justkeepedaling wrote:
I'd go with the Propel hands down. That said, in the Velonews test, what handlebars were tested on the Propel?


We tested it with the stock aero-shaped bars. I do believe that is what put it (very slightly) ahead of the S5. But, you have to ride with handlebars... Giant should be rewarded for optimizing those as well.

We test bikes in their stock configuration except for wheels, which people frequently swap out.

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Twitter: @CaleyFretz


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:33 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:09 pm
Posts: 720
Not sure when the new Felt AR is going to be released, but it looks pretty bada**, aero, fairly light and stiffer than previous models.

Something else to consider. Scott Foil is nice, I have one, but the ride is fairly brutal due to stiffness.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:56 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:02 pm
Posts: 140
Location: florida
VNTech wrote:
justkeepedaling wrote:
I'd go with the Propel hands down. That said, in the Velonews test, what handlebars were tested on the Propel?


We tested it with the stock aero-shaped bars. I do believe that is what put it (very slightly) ahead of the S5. But, you have to ride with handlebars... Giant should be rewarded for optimizing those as well.

We test bikes in their stock configuration except for wheels, which people frequently swap out.


Was wondering why Velo News didn't include the BMC TMR01 in their aero test? I have a feeling that the TMR01 and the Propel are very close in the tunnel. Would love to see a all star aero test with the Propel , TMR01, S5 VWD and the Foil. Kind of curious why Cervelo is the only company using the full rear wheel cut out? Bikes like the Propel and the TMR01 only use a partial cut out. I would imagine the full wheel cut out like the S5 must be fastest as almost every TT bike out there uses this config. Seems like Giant and BMC are leaving some speed on the table. As far as the 1 piece Giant aero bars it looks like unless you buy the high end Propel with DI2 and 404's at $12k they wont be available. Dumb move by Giant if you ask me as I would like to have them in my build if I buy the Propel. If not and I cant get them or buy the BMC I will probably go with the ZIPP Zuka Sprint or the new ENVE aero carbon bars. I'm surprised Zipp or Enve hasn't come out with a 1 piece carbon aero bar/stem combo like Giant. I would imagine they would be very popular.

Also in reference to people recommending the Scott Foil. I have ridden a Foil Team and liked it. It was a bit harsh and the head tube is very short but I can buy one dirt cheap though a friend that is a shop owner that carries Scott. My issue with the Foil is there top tier frame (the Premium and the Team) are only available in 1 color. The Prem. which is DI2 only comes in black on black (and from what I heard will not be available in the U.S). So that rules that out. The Team version this year is white, black and yellow. Sorry but I'm just not a fan of yellow. So the bottom line is if you want a top end Foil for a mech. groupo you better like yellow or your shit out of luck!

In regards to the new Felt AR you can not get the high end frame unless your running DI2! Again dumb move. Not everyone that wants to buy the best frame also wants Di2. In this day and age I don't know why companies make Di2 specific frames. Its easy enough to make them compatable for both. Let me ask you a question. Lets say you buy a new di2 only frame. And 3 years from now you want to sell it. How many people that can afford DI2 are buying used frames? My answer...........very few.


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Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:56 pm 


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