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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:33 pm 
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It all comes down to where the parts are manufactured - what currency exchange rates and import taxes apply on the retailers country.
A good example is Mavic wheels, which get bashed here all the time. If you convert a US shops price in USD to euros, the list price in US is way more expensive. Mavic wheels are about 30 tp 40% cheaper in mainland Europe.
Also, German webshops are cheaper in mostly everything over Wiggle/CRC. If Wiggle/CRC has a special price, you can bet that the list price is German webshops is cheaper.

But Shimano parts tend to be cheaper in US :(

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Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:33 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:21 pm 
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Not getting your exchange rate argument. I pay US$ when I get them cheap in the UK... same money I use here. And the US doesn't have import taxes on this stuff. I know at least for parts I sell, most EU countries *do* pay import taxes.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:05 pm 
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the way it really works here in europe and especially germany, is that the larger online retailers like Planet-x and bike-components.de have there own bike brands bike-components has Vortrieb and idk how many bikes are sold but lets say they are now qualifed to buy OEM direct from shimano here in the Netherlands (Eu shimano HQ) in very high quantities. OEM has the advantage for the manufacturer that they can also pack there prodcuts in bulk so save on shipping from the factory to the main distribution point here in europe and they save on packaging costs and labour.

What that means for local bike shops i that they can actualy buy cheaper from a online retailer then they can from shimano direct because they buy small quantities, so actually Shimano is kinda killing the lbs in terms of pricing over here in the Netherlands.

What it means for us as costumers is that you get your tires or other components without the original packaging and a much lower price about 50% or less from retail, atleast if you are in europe.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:10 pm 
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WMW wrote:
Not getting your exchange rate argument. I pay US$ when I get them cheap in the UK... same money I use here. And the US doesn't have import taxes on this stuff. I know at least for parts I sell, most EU countries *do* pay import taxes.


Yes, you are paying in USD but it takes more USD to buy the item in its base currency whether Euro or GBP.......

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:01 pm 
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One of our local shops buys some of his stock online. Even paying the vat as a private customer leaves him quids in on local wholesale.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:13 pm 
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Doolop wrote:
I won't divulge wholesale pricing but I will say that a lot of UK re-sellers pricing is below our cost here in the states.

I think the main reason we are seeing this is because these large retailers are getting distributor pricing and selling direct to the customer. They make their profit margin and don't care that its hurting bike shops all over the world.

With shimano products over there its absolutely out of control.


I can't resist ...

Why do you think those retailers who charge consumers more should exist?

What do they offer that the Wiggles/Ribbles etc. don't in respect of these products?

Bikes stores should make their money on advice linked sales and servicing. For those that don't need this it's a complete waste of money and a market inefficiency paying $125 for a Conti Comp.

That price is LOL funny I'm afraid.

Much like with superstores for all other areas of retail ... people need to wake up here and realise what's in consumers' interests.

Will all bike shops die?

No, not if they get their proposition right. Service and advice ... service and advice ... value add stuff also and become part of the cycling community.

i.e. try harder.

This is the reality of retail hitting small retailers that haven't offered much beyond high prices (vs. internet) and sucking in their cheeks and saying they can't do the wrenching for 2 weeks.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:05 pm 
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btompkins0112 wrote:
Yes, you are paying in USD but it takes more USD to buy the item in its base currency whether Euro or GBP.......


But it is actually the opposite. It takes fewer $ to purchase them overseas than it does here.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:19 pm 
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I am not talking about the consumer, I am talking about the LBS......they have to cover the cost difference in the unfavorable exchange rate since the UK or EU vendor was able to purchase their item at a lower cost.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:36 pm 
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frankmx wrote:
the way it really works here in europe and especially germany, is that the larger online retailers like Planet-x and bike-components.de have there own bike brands bike-components has Vortrieb and idk how many bikes are sold but lets say they are now qualifed to buy OEM direct from shimano here in the Netherlands (Eu shimano HQ) in very high quantities. OEM has the advantage for the manufacturer that they can also pack there prodcuts in bulk so save on shipping from the factory to the main distribution point here in europe and they save on packaging costs and labour.

What that means for local bike shops i that they can actualy buy cheaper from a online retailer then they can from shimano direct because they buy small quantities, so actually Shimano is kinda killing the lbs in terms of pricing over here in the Netherlands.

What it means for us as costumers is that you get your tires or other components without the original packaging and a much lower price about 50% or less from retail, atleast if you are in europe.


I too believe this is the answer.

And a category of the shops are hating this practice because they don't have access to the marked of bike parts distributed in bulk and without packaging.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:13 am 
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I find this topic interesting.

When you buy a car the dealer doesn't make much on the car and its the accessories and add-ons where they make money.

However in the bike industry bikes are priced up to 50% over cost from the manufacturer and then all the parts and accessories are marked up the same or more.
Everyone says support the LBS which I don't argue with but the LBS is making good money and they don't pay their employees that well.
Plain and simple it is a greedy business.

Real problem with LBS is limited inventory and you wait up to a week if they order and you can't get a bike serviced in less then a few days.
I previously worked in the auto industry and we almost never kept cars overnight regardless of the repair needed. That's how you make a happy customer.


I will never understand how a shop, whether online or brick and mortar, can routinely not have inventory of popular products.
And the excuse of supply chain is not valid when all the other retailers have the product.
Order more if you are selling out all the time!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:46 am 
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I go to the LBS when I wanna have someone tell me I don't need what I want, then try to sell me something that doesn't fit because it's what they have in stock. :evil: They sell Conti 4000S's for $60 a pop, and I'm supposed to feel like it's my civic duty to buy them? :noidea:
No thanks. I don't need or use their advise, and I can get my Conti's from PBK for ~$33 depending on the deals (and I go through enough tires that it matters).
I tell people who need the guidance to go to the LBS, because I'm pretty much as grumpy in real life as I am in this post. :twisted:
But, realistically, I shop where I can get a deal, and I'll pay a premium for good service and being able to easily return stuff. The nearest bike shop to me is at least a half hour away, so it's an hour of my time to go there in the best case scenario: They have what I need in stock. Nine times out of ten, they don't. They tell me they can special order it and have it in next week. OK. I can order from ExcelSports.com and have it on my doorstep in 2 days, PBK across the pond is about 10 days. EOR.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:26 am 
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Sorry to go off topic,

Are Planet-x and bike-components.de as reliable are wiggle, chain reaction and total cycling?

C


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:48 am 
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In my experince (U.S.) the LBS's sell Conti 4000 tubies for $125 + tax+ $20 to glue them = $155 (per wheel)

Online (other side of the pond, usually) $76 + Shipping ($15 about ?) + $20 (to glue them) = $111 = $44-ish LESS $$ (per wheel cheaper)

Hard to justify the extra $$ at the LBS.

But if I go to an LBS, I always go to the more $$$ LBS in my area because they are faster in every way than the other shops. Not perfect, but service-wise, they are faster.

Something to be said about a car taking less time....

I took my wife's car in to get:
-new engine mounts,
-power-stearing flush,
-registration and
-something else (I forget)

..... it took 7hrs (less that a day).

I take my bike in to get:
-the front & rear derailers tuned (ie. a few turns of a a couple screws to get it better aligned),
-stem dropped 15mm (excess not cut...yet),
-brakes adjusted so there more room to adjust on the barrels (I was at the end of the adjustment range..wider rims this year)

.... it takes 2-3 days.

I'm not sure, what the answer is.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:03 am 
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timzcat wrote:
I will never understand how a shop, whether online or brick and mortar, can routinely not have inventory of popular products.
Try getting Audi brake discs and pads from a Ford dealer, they won't have stock. Or Pirelli tyres from someone who shifts/gets deals on Bridgestone. Its almost like trying to buy a set of enve rims from a bontrager stockist. Or conti tubs from a shop that sells 100 tubs a year, half a dozen from each manufacturer. You can't get the volume discounts to make it worth stocking them. Unless you charge over the odds, or RRP.

Its not helped by cycling being a low volume, niche sport, cars aren't. You don't have half a dozen warehouses full of all sorts of weird and wonderful kit from 10 year old bikes in every city. So your independent LBS has to go to the importer, and wait until the parts are posted out. Your independent car workshop can make a couple of calls and pretty much choose who to buy most parts from locally, and get them the same day. (Bike standards changing every three or four years is a pain, car standards tend to last rather longer, especially for serviceable items.)

Not to mention car servicing, service fixes and recalls (which is where most of the warehouse stock comes from) is a pretty predictable, regular occurrence, every 30000 miles, new filters, oils and so on.

I don't know anyone off the top of my head who treats their bikes like that.


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Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:03 am 


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:34 am 
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uraqt wrote:
Sorry to go off topic,

Are Planet-x and bike-components.de as reliable are wiggle, chain reaction and total cycling?

C


Yeah - no problems with either.

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