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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:51 am 
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KWalker, did you see the update on the DCRainmaker Eurobike SRM page?

Quote:
Updated Note Aug 30th: SRM’s Director of Sales and Marketing Mike Hall reached out to me today to provide some clarifications and additions to the features and functionality that were originally communicated to me during my talks with three different SRM reps at Eurobike. These include the following updated:

1) The PC8 will indeed allow for all ANT+ power meters.
2) SRM will be implementing left/right balance metrics, including Torque Effectiveness and Pedal Smoothness
3) As previously noted, the Bluetooth 4.0 will be utilized for data transfers, and not sensors (including BLE HR straps)
4) The PC8 will allow workouts to be added to it and executed on it
5) The PC8 will have customizable training zones by power/HR/Critical Power/FTP
6) The PC8 will include the TrainingPeaks metrics of Normalized Power (NP), Training Stress Score (TSS), and Intensity Factor (IF)
7) They are targeting May 2014, as opposed to “Summer 2014” as previously communicated

I did want to include one additional note from Mike, which I’ve included in full below:

“The comment from Sebastian Raebiger about SRM seeing no value in left/right pedal, primarily comes from the small amount of peer reviewed research being done on training prescription (based on single leg workouts to improve ‘balance’ or performance). SRM has been working on a torque analysis system for the last 10 years, and have begun to see its successful application for bike fitting and positioning. Adding this feature to the PC8 will allow us to take that application outdoors. “

Further, their product manager of the PC8 itself will be at Interbike and he’s committed to giving me a more detailed dive into it.

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Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:51 am 


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:12 am 
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uraqt wrote:

Also don't discount the Gamin riders giving feedback, I would expect that, that relationship is going to be better than SRM and it's pros. Just guessing : )

C


If they werent so attached to their SRMs.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:17 am 
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I've never had an issue with SRM. If I could say the same about the likes of Quarq, Garmin and others then the comments might be valid.

SRM works. Full stop. I'm happy to pay for that rather than waste time and rides collecting incorrect data.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:13 pm 
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For me, SRM are still the leader in the aesthetic of power meters.

However, the differences are becoming much smaller with the new P2MS and the price difference no longer justifies the benefit.

The comparison to CS is a good one; historic market leader maintaining high-cost position, with marginal (if any) advantages in primary function, and indeed, small disadvantages in other parameters (repair for wheels, battery for PM).

If P2M could bring out a Campag version, then I am sold.

Airwise - I too am looking for a Campag SRM. You should mention length in your wanted. I am after a 170 if you find one ! The price is high though, and I would compromise on P2M if I could.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:43 pm 
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With the DC Rainmaker updates I definitely withdraw some of my statements. Still very expensive, but it seems to have all of the necessary metrics (the PC8 at least). As for the PM itself nothing has changed there.

With these features, it might be something I want to save up for and buy. I'm considering the 810 to get a larger screen and don't use GPS much and like the metal casing. I just want the unit to have all the features I think I'd need for the money, which it did not seem to have before.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:29 pm 
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But really, who trains with Normalized power in their computer display?

Haven't heard of that.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:22 am 
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prendrefeu wrote:
Tinea Pedis wrote:
prendrefeu wrote:
SRM seems to be the CarbonSports/Lightweight of the power meter market.

I don't see how that is a valid analogy. Especially given they are the choice of 90% of the Pro peloton.


If I may explain?

...

Did an overwhelming majority of the peloton use them? No.

SRM could not hold on to such a market share if their product was not good. The new P2M may change things, may not. Be interesting to see if any teams vote with their feet.

If Lightweights were really that much better than any other wheel, I think they would have been more commonly seen in the peloton. They weren't. You're welcome to your belief. I simply disagree.


And this is no 'SRM bias'. I'm down with whatever crank-based system is most accurate.


Anyway...


uraqt wrote:
Also don't discount the Gamin riders giving feedback, I would expect that, that relationship is going to be better than SRM and it's pros. Just guessing : )

Why rely on the riders? Garmin host their own forum for their products. Which, if you go in to the 810 one, is filled with threads about all the firmware bugs.

Do they listen to these and incorporate them in to their updates? For a lot of the issues, not at all.

Point being, they certainly seem to have no qualms about using their customers to 'beta-test' their product - while barely fixing issues that are brought to their attention. Why would they bother with Garmin-Sharp riders?

Also, given the vast number of WT teams on SRM, it'd be a pretty safe guess that their assumed feedback (through sheer weight of numbers) would be higher than the assumed feedback that even the whole Garmin team could potentially give*


*based on a whole lot of assumption here


Whatever the case, I'll be switching to a PC8 as soon as I can.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:02 am 
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I dont think SRM has been the market leader for the last 5-8 years. I think that role belongs to powertap, simply due to the volume of users.

That said, I think SRM offers a superior product overall. I have used powertap and Quarq in the past, but I find my SRM the best of what I have used. It simply works, and works well. There have been no data drops, obscure numbers or anything to represent problems within the system. I cannot say the same about powertap and Quarq. I've had to replace the torque tubes twice in a powertap in 5 years, and have had the system drift quite substantially with the Quarq. Nothing is worse for a riders confidence than realizing that those gains you were seeing were just the power meter acting up.

The PC7 with my SRM has provided me with EXACTLY the information that I desired. I don't care about normalized power or left/right balance while I'm riding. if I do look at that info, it is only after the ride in WKO. I have a Garmin 800 and a PC7, and I much prefer the PC7 simply due to its simplicity and function.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:57 am 
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I have a Cannondale hollowgram srm. you know what I don't like about it? showing up a big race and having it run out of batteries with less than a 1/3 of what it says it can do. Have about 500 hours on it. dead as a shit. Can't recharge or go buy a little battery like the quarq. no....in fact I have to pull it off and pay 115.00 to make it work again. (takes a week at minimum) I can't see how this can be a market leader.

I'll straight up trade anyone with a hollowgram 50/34 Quarq for this thing. And no one will take that trade.

who cares if Pro's ride Srm..they don't. And most people right here reading this aren't pros either. ok, maybe 1-2 but just because they are really, really bored.

ok..done now


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:34 am 
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If you've had it from new, that is only one quarter of the expected battery life. I'll assume you've spoken to SRM about this and the reply was not positive, given your reaction. What did they say?

Quote:
And no one will take that trade.

For good reason. I don't know enough about the new gen Quarq, but the old gen were a disaster for me.

Quote:
who cares if Pro's ride Srm..

Have a look at how many threads are dedicated to looking at what Pros are doing. SRM care, why else would they have

"In 2010, Ivan Basso won the Giro d'Italia with his Liquigas/Cannondale team, all competing with this model SRM. This was the first PowerMeter designed around..."

on the very page for the SiSl SRM?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:54 pm 
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To me SRMs are like Lightweights because they're a good product that comes with a high price tag that outside of the pro peloton or team discount realm puts them out of reach for normal cyclists that want power, but they now do not really offer anything that no one else does for that premium. I'm trying to think of examples from other markets I know of, but when you buy a Porsche over say a WRX STI, you still get something more for that $$$. I can't think of another consumer comparison.

Also, at least in my area, a lot of rich people buy them as accessories and don't really train with them other than uploading the data to Strava. On group rides its not uncommon to see 10-12 really high end bikes with brand new SRMs as sort of a bling item, especially on Campy/European bikes.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:17 pm 
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airwise wrote:
I've never had an issue with SRM. If I could say the same about the likes of Quarq, Garmin and others then the comments might be valid.

SRM works. Full stop. I'm happy to pay for that rather than waste time and rides collecting incorrect data.


This, just this.

Why fool around with tons of useless datas on a laggy garmin head unit that you need to recharge every day when you can have the simplicity of a PC with a huge battery life? SRM's are just super reliable, durable and accurate, thats it. They do what they're supposed to.

Im like airwise, I was very pissed at missing datas, having questionable files and sending my PM over a few times back when I had a Quarq, basically all my quarq datas are suspicious.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:00 pm 
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@devinci, pretty simple, right?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:31 pm 
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+1 Exactly what these guys have been saying!

When I had a quarq and would go out on a training ride in the rain or snow the damn thing always dropped data, drifted and just didn't feel consistent. I was always messing with the battery and magnets. When your trying to base workouts and more long term training on the data you want it to be dead on every time!

Best comparison I can give would be people buying Mac torque wrenches over the lowes brand. They're 3x as much money but when they're calibrated right you know your getting the torque that you want.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:27 pm 
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I've had an old wired SRM and used an SiSl unit today- it worked perfectly, which is what I expect of it.

It's entirely possible that a P2M would have worked perfectly, also- I've not used one so I cannot say.

I have tried to buy one, but they want a direct bank transfer and I don't.

One of the reasons that I have checked the P2M website regularly hoping for a Credit/Debit card option is that SRM's customer service has to be the worst I've experienced of any company in the last 10 years.


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Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:27 pm 


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