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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 3:59 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:10 pm
Posts: 141
Location: Cincinnati Area, Ohio, USA
So the "obvious crack" is smooth? Like it's filled in with epoxy?


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 4:01 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:10 pm
Posts: 141
Location: Cincinnati Area, Ohio, USA
I will take a photo of my bike in that area today and post.


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
Posted: Tue May 13, 2014 4:01 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 4:06 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:22 pm
Posts: 218
Yes. The picture shows 2 'cracks' running from top to bottom. The one on the left is under the lacquer, it could well have been that way from new. As I say I remember noticing that area when building and I spotted the area where the weave dissapears and goes black. Thinking this was normal I don't remember taking any notice of the 'crack' running from top to bottom. Today when cleaning I noticed the crack in the lacquer on the silver decal. That's when I noticed the crack in the lacquer runs all the way up parallel to this other mark which is under the lacquer and I presume part of the weave in this area. Seeing the scuff at the bottom left it certainly looks suspicious, almost as if some extra work has been done on that area in the factory.


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 4:27 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:10 pm
Posts: 141
Location: Cincinnati Area, Ohio, USA
Here's my speculation.

Someone noted a layup error before the frame was fired. It was likely an assembler that positioned that piece of pre-preg slightly too far back on the chainstay so that the overlap with the BB piece left a gap. Pre-preg is really tacky and you can't just pull it up and stick it back down so maybe they used some tooling to try to slide the fabric pieces closer together. This is also supported by the one horizontal weave (left of gap) that appears pushed to the right. This area wouldn't look scuffed to them in the pre-fired state, but the surface changes would affect epoxy appearance.

Just speculation mind you.

The good news is there are layers of cloth under that one (they're staggered over gaps and high-stress regions) and the lack of overlap shouldn't compromise strength as then ends of the cloth are not where the strength lies. The wrinkles in the decal worry me just a little. One the one hand they could indicate relative movement/bending, but, more likely, they indicate sloppy application.

I'll take photos later for comparison. For now I would just keep an eye out for any cracking that can be felt with your fingernail.


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 4:37 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:22 pm
Posts: 218
Cool, thanks for you input and knowledge. If you look at the first picture I posted, the bit at the top is where I can feel the biggest 'lift' in the lacquer. I fear that if I was to use enough pressure there I could get my finger nail under it and lift a big section out causing a chip. I'm certainly still going to ride it and will keep a close eye on any further developments.

Hopefully I'll get time to take it to the dealer tomorrow and get their opinion.

Thanks again and will certainly be interesting to compare that area on your bike.


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 4:42 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:10 pm
Posts: 141
Location: Cincinnati Area, Ohio, USA
That section is under mostly compressive stress. The load bearing is done by the tension side in composites so if you bunny hop the load from the wheels is taken up by the lower side of the chainstay/BB union, not the top corner. There is some tension stress on that region when you pedal as the frame prevents side-to-side flex, but it's much lower than the stress on the underside.


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 5:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:14 am
Posts: 1229
Location: by Crystal Springs (Sawyer Creek Trail)
Honestly it looks like it came that way from the factory. Pretty poor layup.


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 5:41 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:22 pm
Posts: 218
Yeah was definitely like that new out the box, but the cracks in the lacquer weren't there, those were only noticed today. The bike is only 3 weeks old. Seems to my untrained eye that the fault in the layup has resulted in something flexing enough to cause the crack. I don't think this is good!!


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 6:54 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:10 pm
Posts: 141
Location: Cincinnati Area, Ohio, USA
Yeah, in looking a bit more it's clear that the end of the pre-preg piece on the chainstay ends *well*before* the void area. This means that the void area (aka the one that at first looks like a big crack) is actually a tear in a piece of fabric that goes over the back end of the BB.


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 10:37 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:22 pm
Posts: 218
With thanks to a fellow forum user here's what it should look like. A fair bit different to my bike I hope you'd agree!

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 10:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:10 pm
Posts: 141
Location: Cincinnati Area, Ohio, USA
Wow...and that one is very different from mine:

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 11:11 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:22 pm
Posts: 218
Fair difference in layup between 3 frames there! I suppose there will always be a difference if they're done by hand. And maybe even difference between frame sizes?


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 12:20 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:36 pm
Posts: 637
53x12 wrote:
SD posted these on another forum. These are targeted weights for size 56. Looks like I was right regarding the AR1 being around the ~1050-1060 mark for the frame.

MODEL FRAME / FORK
AR FRD 900g / 325g
AR1, AR3R 1050g / 350g
AR2, AR3E 1000g / 350g
AR4, AR5 1100g / 375g



@ SuperDave,

I have a question about those above numbers that you provided when the frame was first revealed. It was revealed that the AR FRD would be ~900g for a size 56. I think you guys have nailed that from what I have seen as it has come in around 910g if I recall from the members post.

Size 56cm AR1 frame weight:
Image

This picture is from a WW on here, "Krackor" who's 56cm AR1 frame came in at 1176g, rather than the 1050g provided above. I assume part of this includes the RD hanger, water bottle cage bolts and minimal graphics. Could all of that really add up to 126g of added weight? Just curious why the FRD weight would be spot on for the frame, but the AR1 is a ways off? Thanks.

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Last edited by tranzformer on Wed May 14, 2014 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 12:27 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:10 pm
Posts: 141
Location: Cincinnati Area, Ohio, USA
Just a note that this Mize didn't take that photo and I've never weighed my 54cm frame :-)

Sent from my LG-D800 using Tapatalk


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 12:39 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:36 pm
Posts: 637
Mize wrote:
Just a note that this Mize didn't take that photo and I've never weighed my 54cm frame :-)

Sent from my LG-D800 using Tapatalk


Sorry Mize, I confused you with Krackor. Not sure how I did that. Fixed it. Thanks.



As another note, I talked to my Felt dealer and they said Felt USA is completely sold out of AR1 frames. Nada left. Only thing left is the AR3 EPS which has a few left in the warehouse. Nothing else. Crazy to thing of imo. Shop said it has been this way for close to a month with no new Felt ARs coming in until fall at the earliest. Said pre-order would open August/September to get an order in. Wow, so no chance at getting an AR1 until winter of this year (Dec-Jan) if the 2014's are any indication. I guess it is good that Felt is able to sell everything, but isn't it bad that there are customers that want to get into the Felt family lineup, but can't because of lack of inventory. Seems like poor resource management/logistics if the demand can't be met.

_________________
"Sacred to the god Aesculapius"


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 12:39 am 


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