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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:14 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:02 am
Posts: 3235
Location: On the bike
SuperDave wrote:

For my $3999 I'd buy an AR FRD over the F FRD but I know this is WW so the "value" of the AR is probably lost

-SD


There are many of us WW on here that get the aero gains and appreciate that. Part of the reason I am interested in the new AR.


SuperDave wrote:
Sykes wrote:

1. What is the weight of the AR1 frame and fork?


1. I don't have a 56cm raw AR1 frame here to measure, I only have an AR2/3 EPS frame which doesn't have provisions for mechanical cable routing so it is lighter. The 56cm is 1024g and the uncut fork is 363g.


-SD


If the AR FRD is 908g/331g and the AR2/3 EPS frame is at 1024g/363g, is it safe to say the AR1 mechanical frame would be around the 1050-1060g range? I also assume the AR1 uses the same fork as the AR2/3, or does it use a different fork?

_________________
"Marginal gains are the only gains when all that's left to gain is in the margins."


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:30 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 5:31 pm
Posts: 3692
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada
All I know is that I want the most aero and light bike that I can afford to buy. Why do people need to have EITHER light or aero. I love my 13lbs SLC with all the aero goodies. I would however like to have a 12lbs aero build and for the odd time I do a triathlon, flip the stem and post and strap on some aerobars. This is right up my alley.

_________________
BIG DADDY B FLOW
AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Cervelo SLC 5960g/13.13 lbs


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:33 pm 
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I agree with you BmanX. I just want to wait for some reviews/ride reports, stack and reach numbers, get a chance myself to ride it and need to check out the rear brake setup. Hope it is very user friendly. Hate having something too difficult and finicky to deal with.

_________________
"Marginal gains are the only gains when all that's left to gain is in the margins."


Last edited by 53x12 on Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:37 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:29 am
Posts: 1393
Location: Mountain View, California
BmanX wrote:
All I know is that I want the most aero and light bike that I can afford to buy. Why do people need to have EITHER light or aero. I love my 13lbs SLC with all the aero goodies. I would however like to have a 12lbs aero build and for the odd time I do a triathlon, flip the stem and post and strap on some aerobars. This is right up my alley.



My 2008 Cervelo SLC SL is 12.9 lbs! With Reynolds DV46C of the same year, with Tune Mig70 and Mag 180 hubs... Easton SLX3 bar. 7900 Dura-ace parts. Campagnolo Record 10 CT crank w/ Fibrelyte rings. Zero Gravity OG07Ti brakes. Fizik Antares 00. It used to be even lighter when I used the Tune Speedneedle I bought off of you a long time ago. But that saddle hurt my butt so bad.

;)

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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:43 pm 
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Posts: 3235
Location: On the bike
Not sure I am totally thrilled about the glossy finish to the bike.

Image

Luckily I am only interested in the frameset.


Throw Shimano 9000/9070 on it and an Omega front brake and I think you will be in business.

_________________
"Marginal gains are the only gains when all that's left to gain is in the margins."


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:53 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 09, 2009 3:03 am
Posts: 219
Location: Maryland
My question is why is the Ultegra di2 so much more expensive than the Ultegra mechanical. $6200 vs $3500? That is crazy! No way the wheel/cockpit/saddle spec could be bumped enough to make up the difference. Is it a totally different layup as well? (other than the obvious electronic vs. mechanical frame change)


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:00 pm 
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Posts: 1393
Location: Mountain View, California
I'm hoping that the AR FRD maintains the naked finish with a simple FELT logo. That is mint!

_________________
http://www.hackracer.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:02 pm 
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in the industry

Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:57 am
Posts: 443
Location: Newport Beach, CA
53x12 wrote:
SuperDave wrote:

For my $3999 I'd buy an AR FRD over the F FRD but I know this is WW so the "value" of the AR is probably lost

-SD


There are many of us WW on here that get the aero gains and appreciate that. Part of the reason I am interested in the new AR.


SuperDave wrote:
Sykes wrote:

1. What is the weight of the AR1 frame and fork?


1. I don't have a 56cm raw AR1 frame here to measure, I only have an AR2/3 EPS frame which doesn't have provisions for mechanical cable routing so it is lighter. The 56cm is 1024g and the uncut fork is 363g.


-SD


If the AR FRD is 908g/331g and the AR2/3 EPS frame is at 1024g/363g, is it safe to say the AR1 mechanical frame would be around the 1050-1060g range? I also assume the AR1 uses the same fork as the AR2/3, or does it use a different fork?


Yes. I would expect the cable guides to add ~30g. I am riding an AR1 but it is a 58cm and it is built so I could only speculate on what a 56cm would weigh.
Once production samples arrive I'll videotape me weighing them and load them to YouTube as we've done in the past.

-SD

_________________
http://www.3Tcycling.com
https://www.strava.com/athletes/164090


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:04 pm 
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Posts: 3235
Location: On the bike
"I'm hoping that the AR FRD maintains the naked finish with a simple FELT logo. That is mint!"

Me too. They should so that they can show off the Textreme carbon. No sense in covering it with paint. Added time, cost and weight. That would be zero sense. Simplicity is better.

_________________
"Marginal gains are the only gains when all that's left to gain is in the margins."


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:14 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 5:31 pm
Posts: 3692
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada
[quote="53x12"]Not sure I am totally thrilled about the glossy finish to the bike.quote]

My issue is that if I want to be able to do a quick change over from road config to tri config the electronic option makes it very very appealing. Would take very little time to change over the front end and flip the post. Only PITA is the rear brake cable run if you do change it over. I could sort out something however.

_________________
BIG DADDY B FLOW
AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Cervelo SLC 5960g/13.13 lbs


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:42 pm 
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in the industry

Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:57 am
Posts: 443
Location: Newport Beach, CA
JN2Wheels wrote:
My question is why is the Ultegra di2 so much more expensive than the Ultegra mechanical. $6200 vs $3500? That is crazy! No way the wheel/cockpit/saddle spec could be bumped enough to make up the difference. Is it a totally different layup as well? (other than the obvious electronic vs. mechanical frame change)


The AR4 and AR2 frame, fork, and seatpost are indeed different in terms of lay up and frame molds.

I know you don't have the frame, fork, seatpost, and derailleur hanger cost differences. Let's ignore them for the purpose of your question.
Please help me calculate the price differences of:

HANDLEBAR 3T TORNOVA TEAM STEALTH vs. FELT Flat top Aero Road handlebar ($70)
STEM 3T ARX II TEAM STEALTH vs. FELT SL 3D forged 6061 Aluminum stem ($45)
TOP CAP Carbon w/ 7075 bolt ($30) vs. Aluminum w/ 2024 bolt ($15)
SHIFTERS ST-6870L vs. ST6800L
ST-6870R vs. ST6800R
+SWR610
F/DER FD-6870 vs. FD6800F
R/DER RD-6870-SS vs. RD6800SS
SADDLE Prologo Zero TiRox vs. Prologo Zero T2.0 Cr-Mo
TIRES Diamante Pro Light vs. Rubino Pro Slick
WHEELS 3T ACCELERO 40 CARBON TEAM STEALTH vs. Shimano WH-RS31

The AR2 also includes:
VALVE CAPS: 7075 CNC Machined 30mm Valve stem extenders
BATTERY: SMBTR2
BATTERY CHARGER: SMBCR2
DERAILLEUR CABLE SET SM-EW90-A, Di2 for Standard Handlebar specification (E-Tube Port x 3), 6 x EW-SD50-I for built in type wire routing, SM-JC41 junction for internal battery & cable routing

I'm crystal clear on where the OEM price differences are of these components and why there is a $2500 price jump from the AR2 to the AR4 but perhaps there are aftermarket sources that dip well below the MSRP.

I can add on the cost differences on the frameset and the penalty that the small volume of Di2 production adds vs. the huge volume of mechanical Ultegra bikes but I think you'll find these differences are absorbed and the component price differences are higher than you anticipated.

-Dave

_________________
http://www.3Tcycling.com
https://www.strava.com/athletes/164090


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:44 pm 
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in the industry

Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:57 am
Posts: 443
Location: Newport Beach, CA
BmanX wrote:
53x12 wrote:
Not sure I am totally thrilled about the glossy finish to the bike.quote]

My issue is that if I want to be able to do a quick change over from road config to tri config the electronic option makes it very very appealing. Would take very little time to change over the front end and flip the post. Only PITA is the rear brake cable run if you do change it over. I could sort out something however.


There is an inline quick release mounted alongside the stem which would allow a triathlon cockpit to be swapped in without having to re-run the housing inside the frame. The Shimano quick release could act as a housing-split letting the road brake cable and small section of housing wrapped under the bars to go with the road cockpit and allowing the TT/Tri front end to slide in its place.

-SD

_________________
http://www.3Tcycling.com
https://www.strava.com/athletes/164090


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:46 pm 
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in the industry

Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:57 am
Posts: 443
Location: Newport Beach, CA
53x12 wrote:
"I'm hoping that the AR FRD maintains the naked finish with a simple FELT logo. That is mint!"

Me too. They should so that they can show off the Textreme carbon. No sense in covering it with paint. Added time, cost and weight. That would be zero sense. Simplicity is better.


The AR FRD maintains a very spartan graphic package and does not use any paint color, just a very specially applied layer of matte clear.

-SD

_________________
http://www.3Tcycling.com
https://www.strava.com/athletes/164090


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:03 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:02 am
Posts: 3235
Location: On the bike
Cool promo video by the guys at Felt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Unmz4eOTdQs

_________________
"Marginal gains are the only gains when all that's left to gain is in the margins."


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:09 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:02 am
Posts: 3235
Location: On the bike
SD posted these on another forum. These are targeted weights for size 56. Looks like I was right regarding the AR1 being around the ~1050-1060 mark for the frame.

MODEL FRAME / FORK
AR FRD 900g / 325g
AR1, AR3R 1050g / 350g
AR2, AR3E 1000g / 350g
AR4, AR5 1100g / 375g

_________________
"Marginal gains are the only gains when all that's left to gain is in the margins."


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