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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:31 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:57 am
Posts: 407
Location: Irvine, CA
mitchgixer6 wrote:
Thanks Dave. Guess I better order up some extra brake cable housing! Any of the guys that have built their bikes already got some information on what length I'll need?

Thanks


Start by measuring the length of the downtube, headtube + headset stack, stem length, and half the bar width. That will get you within ~5cm of the optimal length.
SD

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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:34 am 
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Posts: 407
Location: Irvine, CA
Krackor wrote:
Dave, how do you manage the aluminum housing inside the frame? It doesn't seem as simple as threading in a solid piece of traditional housing through. Is there any risk of abrasion of the aluminum links against the inside walls of the frame?
I've already got my Jagwire Links and AR1 frameset on the way, so I may need to adjust my plans now that I hear it's a continuous run to the rear brake.


I think the risk is just as great as running the aluminum links on the OUTSIDE of the frame, right? I suppose it could be possible to wear enough material away with the inner cable housing. I've seen guys saw ~1cm into their MTB fork crowns with regular cable housing so anything is possible. You'll be less likely to get grit inside which would accelerate any wear with the internal routing.

-Dave

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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:34 am 


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:36 am 
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Posts: 407
Location: Irvine, CA
Krackor wrote:
While you're at it can you give your best estimate how much total housing length you use for your brake cables? I'd rather order any necessary extra length sooner rather than later if possible.

edit: My frame came in today, so I measured the cable run myself. It should be approximately an extra 600mm cable run inside the frame for the rear brake cable housing. My best estimate is about 1250mm for the entire rear brake run. Front brake run is approximately 500mm. Jagwire Elite Links comes with 1040mm of links, plus 600mm of CGX housing (which will be cut to about 200mm on each side to run under the bar tape). That gives me a total working length of 1440mm of housing, which leaves me about 300mm short of a complete housing set.

I'm going to contact Jagwire to see if they have some spare links I can purchase, and hopefully an extra-long liner to run the full rear brake length.

edit2: And now that I read the descriptions more carefully, it looks like I may not need to order extra parts after all. The brake and shifter sets together look like they come with 2700mm total length in links, which is more than the 2300mm I'll need. The shifter set comes with a couple unnecessarily long 1430mm liners, one of which I can use for the rear brake run. One of the spare liners from the brake kit can substitute inside the shifter housing.


I ran the shifter liner on the rear brake as well.
Image

-SD

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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:25 am 
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Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 9:48 pm
Posts: 90
Hi Dave,

I've got my cable sets and frame here and I'm trying to route the rear brake cable. Do you have any suggestions for getting the housing through the hole on the downtube near the BB? Right now I'm trying to fish a derailleur cable through the hole, then later use it as a guide to which I can tape the brake cable housing, but I'm having trouble getting anything through that tiny hole in the first place.


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:48 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:57 am
Posts: 407
Location: Irvine, CA
Krackor wrote:
Hi Dave,

I've got my cable sets and frame here and I'm trying to route the rear brake cable. Do you have any suggestions for getting the housing through the hole on the downtube near the BB? Right now I'm trying to fish a derailleur cable through the hole, then later use it as a guide to which I can tape the brake cable housing, but I'm having trouble getting anything through that tiny hole in the first place.


Start at the hole in the downtube with a shifter cable wire.
Pass the wire into the hole and up toward the head tube. With the fork removed, grab the wire and feed it through the hole in the top of the top tube.

Once the inner wire is run, push the brake cable housing over it and into place.

Voilà!

A piece of string and a shop vac is also an easy way to do it if the bike is already assembled.


-SD

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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:05 am 
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Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 9:48 pm
Posts: 90
I'm doing this with the fork installed, so that was my first mistake.

I tried feeding in a cable from the top tube then hooking it with a piece of wire. I tried the shopvac and string method. I tried taping a piece of cotton to the cable end then hooking that.

Ultimately what worked was a set of neodymium magnets. I carefully threaded the cable down to just above the downtube hole. I could look into the bottom bracket cable port to see where the cable was, and I could also follow the cable location with a small magnet on the outside of the frame. Once the cable was positioned just above the downtube hole, I was having trouble getting it over a lip in the carbon fiber. I stuck some magnets to the end of a 30mm long screw, then used the temporarily magnetized screw to fish out the cable. I had a friend slowly feed the cable into the top tube while I lay on my back under the bike and drew out the screw from the frame.

I found the magnets at a local hardware store for ~$10.

If I ever have to run it again, it would probably be much less work to just remove the fork and run it in reverse order like Dave suggests.

edit: Dave, can you provide details on how you mated the Jagwire Links housing to the ferruled mousetails included with the frame? I can see how traditional 4mm housing would fit into the mousetail's ferrule, but the fit of the links is not as secure there. I could put a link directly onto the lip of the mousetail ferrule, but it looks like it could rub noisily at that interface. Maybe it's not something I need to worry about and I should just use the link, but I'd like to hear what your experience has been.

edit2: I accidentally let the cable fall all the way into the toptube hole, so I had to run the rear brake route again. I removed the fork and did the reverse route, finishing the job in about 10 minutes no problem. :beerchug:


Last edited by Krackor on Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:40 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:38 am
Posts: 2
Dave,

Can you tell me if the new 2014 AR1 frameset is compatible with the Campy EPS group? Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:21 pm 
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Posts: 407
Location: Irvine, CA
jaconle33 wrote:
Dave,

Can you tell me if the new 2014 AR1 frameset is compatible with the Campy EPS group? Thanks


Yes, a few pages up you'll see my AR1 assembled with SR EPS and we also sell an EPS version (AR3 EPS) using the AR1 lay up.

-SD

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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:41 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:57 am
Posts: 407
Location: Irvine, CA
Krackor wrote:
I'm doing this with the fork installed, so that was my first mistake.

I tried feeding in a cable from the top tube then hooking it with a piece of wire. I tried the shopvac and string method. I tried taping a piece of cotton to the cable end then hooking that.

Ultimately what worked was a set of neodymium magnets. I carefully threaded the cable down to just above the downtube hole. I could look into the bottom bracket cable port to see where the cable was, and I could also follow the cable location with a small magnet on the outside of the frame. Once the cable was positioned just above the downtube hole, I was having trouble getting it over a lip in the carbon fiber. I stuck some magnets to the end of a 30mm long screw, then used the temporarily magnetized screw to fish out the cable. I had a friend slowly feed the cable into the top tube while I lay on my back under the bike and drew out the screw from the frame.

I found the magnets at a local hardware store for ~$10.

If I ever have to run it again, it would probably be much less work to just remove the fork and run it in reverse order like Dave suggests.

edit: Dave, can you provide details on how you mated the Jagwire Links housing to the ferruled mousetails included with the frame? I can see how traditional 4mm housing would fit into the mousetail's ferrule, but the fit of the links is not as secure there. I could put a link directly onto the lip of the mousetail ferrule, but it looks like it could rub noisily at that interface. Maybe it's not something I need to worry about and I should just use the link, but I'd like to hear what your experience has been.

edit2: I accidentally let the cable fall all the way into the toptube hole, so I had to run the rear brake route again. I removed the fork and did the reverse route, finishing the job in about 10 minutes no problem. :beerchug:


I didn't use the Jagwire links on my shifters as I've built up my AR1 with EPS and now I'm running Di2. I did set up my Edict9 LTD with the links and cheated by making my own step-down ferrule on the lathe here at the office. Maybe you can open up the hole in the cable stop ever so slightly so the liner from the linkage can pass through the cable stop. I think you'll need a 0.1mm larger hole.

For sure taking the fork out (3 bolts) is much easier than using the other methods as far as the cable routing goes. The frames should come with liners already in place, too so the first time should be easy and if you are careful about cable replacement it should be the last time you need to run a new shifting or braking system. Always leave the old inner wire in place when running new brake housing. Then once the new housing is run, pull out the old wire and run the new one.

Please post some photos!

-SD

-SD

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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 9:48 pm
Posts: 90
Expanding the ferrule hole sounds like a possible solution. I'm not sure if there will be enough liner length considering I am using one of the long shifter liners for the rear brake line, but I think it should work.

So far I've only taken pictures of parts and pieces on my scale (thanks to prendrefeu for recommending in another thread the MyWeigh 7001DX). Total weight for the frameset as I intend to use it came out to 1891g, just under the advertised weight of 1.9kg.

http://imgur.com/a/chws9

The impossible to read weight for the front derailleur is 82g (with Sram Chain Spotter). The displayed seatpost weight is including the 2g battery clip, which I removed for a weight of 244g. I'm projecting total weight for the project right at 7000g, including an Enve SES 6.7 tubular + powertap g3 wheels w/ conti gp4000.

Dave, what did you use for quick release and/or barrel adjuster for your rear brake? I have a couple Jagwire Pro Indexed Inline Adjusters from the shifter cable set, but they don't seem to fit on the 5mm traditional housing, and I can't figure out how I would splice it into the links section.

This might just be the first ever AR1 + Jagwire Elite Links shift cabled bike. It's a bit of a hassle to work out these bugs, but it's going to look slick when it's all done.


Last edited by Krackor on Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:58 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:57 am
Posts: 407
Location: Irvine, CA
Krackor wrote:
Total weight for the frameset as I intend to use it came out to 1891g, just under the advertised weight of 1.9kg.


Damn! I better update the website to 1.89kg :oops: I know how much people hate when website weights aren't accurate although I don't recall ever seeing a weight that was published that was too high :wink:

-SD

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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:42 am
Posts: 39
Location: Europe
Very nice future bike :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:37 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:44 am
Posts: 1390
SuperDave wrote:
Image


should be on every page


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:40 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:58 pm
Posts: 11
SuperDave wrote:
emartin wrote:
SuperDave wrote:
emartin wrote:
Hi,
I just received reply from Tektro about my clearance issue with Shimano direct mount and Stages powermeter. I initially wanted the T740 with a simple design but Tektro suggest the T750 with a more complex design and ease of adjustment:
Image
Would both do the job? I had a similar to the T750 rear brake on my Giant Trinity and was not a fan of the complexity and adjustment. Would prefer the T740 if it fit and work good.
Thanks


You need the T750. Both designs are similar actually. The T740 will hit the stages PM.

-Dave

Thanks Dave, how's the power and modulation with this brake? I'm doing alot of criterium so good braking is crucial. Alot cheaper than the Eebrake if it does the job.


I've been using it for the last few months and I've been pleased with the performance. I had it set up with EPS initially and then with Shimano 9070. The Shimano lever feel is much softer but the power is just fine. Using compressionless aluminum segmented housing from Jagwire has helped firm up the lever feel as the full continuous housing run through the frame will compress much more than the front brake which can cause an imbalanced feel.

As with most things, proper set up yields proper results.

-SD


So I'm working on my AR1 I have the ultegra 6810 in the back. I do want to run the stages power meter I know that the tektro t750 r is the brake to use but i can't seem to find where to purchase this brake?

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Oregon
2014 Felt AR1 11 speep di2
2013 Felt F65x trp hyrd


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:40 am 


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:10 pm
Posts: 135
Location: Cincinnati Area, Ohio, USA
Here's the info I received...they should be about ready to sell them:
Quote:
We have placed our order with the factory for some T750R brakes, but have not yet received them. We expect them to arrive around mid-February. We will make them available on our Tektro-usa.com site as soon as they are available. Here is a link to the factory’s site with some information:

http://tektro.com/_english/01_products/ ... rt=1&fid=2

Thanks!

Bryce Olsen
Customer Service and Warranty Rep
TRP Brakes/Tektro USA
688 West Amidan Dr.
Bldg 4X Bay 1
Ogden, UT 84403
Phone: 801-648-7079 EXT 703
Fax: 801-648-7086


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