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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:40 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:26 pm
Posts: 140
Location: New Zealand
Without them actually listing trail there is a few other factors which could be at play such as Axle to Crown length.

Personally I want to thank Felt on the behalf of short people for making an effort with small bike geometry (like they have been for a while) rather than just slapping a slacker head angle and steeper seat angle on there and calling it done.


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:40 am 


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:31 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:18 am
Posts: 591
Location: Cambridge, New Zealand
Ax-Cr is 370 so nothing funky happening there. I agree about great to see the effort on the small bikes as the old AR was quite long reach. But also agree about not liking 51mm of trail on the big frames - it would be nice with a 40mm fork. Do feel a bit let down that they have 4 different fork rakes in the range (which is about 4x as many as most brands...) but they couldn't do one more (or slacken HTA).

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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:43 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:45 am
Posts: 113
So.....the Felt FRD frameset can not be run with mechanical or hydraulic?? only electronic?!


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:48 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:55 am
Posts: 466
Location: Vladivostok
That's correct - The AR FRD is electronic only, where as the mechanical version is the AR1 - which I think is is awesome value, considering it's only like $2500 for the frames.

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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:30 pm
Posts: 3935
Location: Bay Area
JBV wrote:
74' head angle in the two upper sizes results in very unstable handling at higher speeds, in my experience. I had a 60cm F1 some years ago with that same combo, I swapped in a 40mm rake fork and it was rideable, but 43mm and 74' results in too little trail. Fine for turning under ~25mph, but very hard to rail a corner at racing speeds, or descend mountains with switchbacks.

I'm an upper category racer with >25 years experience, BTW.

Would love to hear Felt's rationale for this, as otherwise these are fantastic bikes. SuperDave?


Weird, most of the higher end custom builders use that HTA and rake and do just fine. I ride a 58 and am going with that with my custom build and its been perfectly stable on other bikes I've ridden.

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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:28 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:18 am
Posts: 186
Interesting, I've ridden two bikes with 74' HTA, both were only raceable with 40mm rake. 43 was tough to deal with, 45 was nearly impossible. Maybe just what I'm used to?


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:57 pm
Posts: 7371
Location: San Francisco, CA
"Some years ago" were you using 19 mm tires? These reduce trail relative to 23-25 mm tires.

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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:29 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:52 am
Posts: 655
SuperDave,

why is the listed felt AR FRD frameset so heavy ?


Weight:
1.77kg, 3.9lb

http://www.feltbicycles.com/USA/2014/Bikes/Road/AR-Series/ar-frd-frameset.aspx

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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:07 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:14 am
Posts: 1229
Location: by Crystal Springs (Sawyer Creek Trail)
Just guessing, but it may include the seatpost


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:46 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 09, 2009 3:03 am
Posts: 219
Location: Maryland
My guess is it includes everything listed. Frame, Fork, Seatpost with binder, BB, Headset, hanger. Nice!


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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:22 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:57 am
Posts: 418
Location: Irvine, CA
Sykes wrote:
I am curious as to one thing, both in the TDF and more recently the Pro Challenge, why A/S team isn't using the AR more? Even on sprinter stages the guys use the F over AR. I have no reason to doubt SuperDave's info, and I'm sure there is a good reason, but I keep asking myself why the pros don't use the AR. This is especially curious because everything we have been told about the AR says that it has bridged the compromise between aero and traditional road frames.

This isn't just an A/S team choice though, I did not see any S5s on the Pro Challenge, but since we have Dave's ear maybe he could enlighten us.


The Argos guys are racing on F-series bikes because that is what we provided this sprinter-focused team. Almost all the riders are using the low aggressive F-series bikes with PRO -10 degree stems with no or a 5mm headset spacer. A few guys are on -17 degree custom stems on an F-series bike. As the highest STW of any other bike we offer, the F FRD was the perfect choice.

The new AR bicycles haven't begun mass production in the AR FRD format just yet, delivering all new bicycles above and beyond the contractual obligations in September doesn't seem like a wise investment. With a few dozen wins including bookending the Tour de France with victories over Cav, the gorilla, and Sagan, I think their equipment choice is far from limiting.

-SD

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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:28 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:57 am
Posts: 418
Location: Irvine, CA
hasbeen wrote:
Disappointed that the geo isnt more like the F series. Those headtube heights are silly.


Silly? The new AR is equipped with a special two-piece headset cover that offers a 4mm or 20mm cone spacer. The F-series bikes come with a standard FSA 15mm cone spacer. With the lower 4mm spacer on an AR and a -17 stem available from dozens of stem makers, the AR can be set up lower and with less frontal area and reduced drag. By designing the frame that offers the wind more of the aerodynamically shaped head tube and less of the round F-series ControlTaper head tube, headset stack and steerer tube spacers we can provide a faster bike.

If you are among the 0.4% of the consumer population riding the F-series bike with a low-stack headset and a -17 degree stem without spacers now then yes, the AR is not for you, but I'd argue that in that specific case your position is silly, not our bike.

The other positional dimensions on the F and AR series bicycles are now the same with the exception of a couple mm in the chainstay length.

-SD

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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:53 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:20 am
Posts: 1355
Dave any confirmation that the ARA will be sold as a frameset only in Europe and not just as the AR15?

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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:55 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:57 am
Posts: 418
Location: Irvine, CA
JBV wrote:
74' head angle in the two upper sizes results in very unstable handling at higher speeds, in my experience. I had a 60cm F1 some years ago with that same combo, I swapped in a 40mm rake fork and it was rideable, but 43mm and 74' results in too little trail. Fine for turning under ~25mph, but very hard to rail a corner at racing speeds, or descend mountains with switchbacks.

I'm an upper category racer with >25 years experience, BTW.

Would love to hear Felt's rationale for this, as otherwise these are fantastic bikes. SuperDave?


I'd love to hear your feedback on the bike after riding a 2014 version vs the ~2007 thru 2009 F1. The new bikes are 50% stiffer in the head tube resulting in far more steering precision. The bigger guys we've had racing our 61cm size had a great deal of input on the steering geometry used. Guys like Maggie selected the 43mm offset after trying a variety of different fork offsets. Early on with Slipstream you can see him on Oval and 3T front ends playing with the fork rake finding the balance he desired. Now big guys like Stamsnijder find the agile handling a perfect match for the longer wheelbase of the larger bikes.

I agree the quick handling must be a feature desired for the pilot for the geo to work but that is why we offer various models in the road line. The Z series bikes for example.

-SD

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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:23 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:57 am
Posts: 418
Location: Irvine, CA
terminus wrote:
So.....the Felt FRD frameset can not be run with mechanical or hydraulic?? only electronic?!


It should work with hydraulic if the technical information is ever finalized for those groups.
https://sphotos-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/r90/1236600_10201917632608435_1213258874_n.jpg


It will not work with mechanical as there are no additional patches in the carbon lay up where the cable stops or guides would pierce the frame to reduce the weight of the bicycle as much as possible.


The ~1000g AR1 can be set up with mechanical shifting and is comparable in weight to the lightest aero road frames on the market today. If you prefer mechanical shifting, there are options in the AR line.

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 Post subject: Re: Felt 2014 AR1
Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:23 pm 


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