Felt 2014 AR1

[Sykes]

Where are the rear brakes on the AR?

[euan]

You can see them under the BB

[Sykes]

You can see them under the BB

I thought that initially but if so, the pad are running acorss the tire, or maybe there are no pads attached.

[ill principe]

Whats a ballpark figure regarding estimated price for this frame?

The top end frames from Felt have not been priced as high as S-Works Venge, S5 etc as far as I´ve understood? (Sigma Sport lists the 2013 AR1 at £1,999.00)

[Sykes]

No need to quote the post above

I'm hoping the prices will remain in line with the 2013s. I say that because you can see the prices on felt.com and when you look at the niner series the jump from std. carbon to FRD is about double the std carbon price, $1,550 to $2,900

http://www.feltbicycles.com/USA/2013/Mo ... eries.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[SuperDave]

The testing I am sure was not apples to apples between the bikes because you can't set them up the exact same way. Now if you took the S5 added some Zipp Vuka bars and a TriRig front brake I would bet that it beats the Giant. I do not buy into these tests. Also I would bet that the Giant was tested with their wheels VS stock wheels on the S5 so again not a fair fight. Typical marketing BS.

Interesting to note when Giant conducted their test they left the previous generation AR off the list.
With identical set ups (not including the stem) the Giant was slower than the S5 in our testing. It was lighter and much stiffer, however.

-SD

[BmanX]

Which S5 did you test Dave? Was it the VWD, TEAM or S5? All three are slightly different correct with the VWD being their lightest/stiffest?

What I would love to see now is a test with the S5 VWD, Giant Propel, Specialized S-Works Venge and the new FELT AR all set up as identical as possible and see what comes out.

I get why they put up their stock offering against the competitions stock offering if their stock offering is better spec'd. Having the exact same wheels, parts, tires, pedals, stem (if possible) but that still leaves the front brake issue. Giant has their brakes hidden which I believe is better than say Cervelo's stock offering but what happens when you add an aero brake to the Cervelo or another bike without hidden front brake.

[SuperDave]

Whats a ballpark figure regarding estimated price for this frame?

The top end frames from Felt have not been priced as high as S-Works Venge, S5 etc as far as I´ve understood? (Sigma Sport lists the 2013 AR1 at £1,999.00)

I'm hoping the prices will remain in line with the 2013s. I say that because you can see the prices on felt.com and when you look at the niner series the jump from std. carbon to FRD is about double the std carbon price, $1,550 to $2,900

http://www.feltbicycles.com/USA/2013/Mo ... eries.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You are correct to assume that we've been able to get the prices from 2013 to match up pretty well in 2014. There are some things like the new Ultegra 11 speed components that have had a price increase we cannot absorb, but great designs such as the new AR do not cost more money to manufacture necessarily. Development tools like the FEA, CFD, tunnel time, the patents that have been awarded, and prototyping certainly have costs. In general though, if you were shopping for an AR4 in 2012 or 2013 you'll be looking at the same price level for the 2014 version.

The AR FRD on the other hand is a new level of work for Felt. FRD projects in the past have never had a budget but they typically end up as marketing tools more than sales ventures. Bikes like the Tk1 and F - PR bike used on the cobbles will never recoup their development investment. These new "for public" FRD projects are similar. The Oxeon made raw material alone in the F FRD is nearly the price of the finished frames from previous generations. TeXtreme has proven so promising for the rigors a bicycle must go through we're willing to be the pioneers here because it will simply make all our bicycles better in the long run. Felt is the only bicycle company that offered TeXtreme frames in 2013 and we'll be alone again in 2014. By 2015 it will start to show up on other high end frames and I suspect by 2016 or 2017 it will be common for premium products. Today the cost and hassle of sourcing the Finnish-made material and getting it to our frame factories is a challenge no one else is able to overcome.

-Dave

[Sykes]

Dave,

I'm a little confused from your post above re pricing.

Going by the example I gave above of your MTB Nine series, it looks like the FRD model will be roughly double the UHC Advanced carbon. This is a similar price increase when looking at the 2013 F and AR lines when going from UHC Advanced to UHC Ultimate + Nano. Are you saying we can expect to see a significant price jump from the 2013 AR1 and 2013 F1 to the AR-FRD and F-FRD? I hope not because the current pricing for the F1/AR1 is about the top of my budget for a frameset.

[SuperDave]

Dave,

I'm a little confused from your post above re pricing.

Going by the example I gave above of your MTB Nine series, it looks like the FRD model will be roughly double the UHC Advanced carbon. This is a similar price increase when looking at the 2013 F and AR lines when going from UHC Advanced to UHC Ultimate + Nano. Are you saying we can expect to see a significant price jump from the 2013 AR1 and 2013 F1 to the AR-FRD and F-FRD? I hope not because the current pricing for the F1/AR1 is about the top of my budget for a frameset.

Sorry for the confusion.

Yes, the 2014 AR FRD is going to be more expensive than the AR1 from 2013, among the reasons are the FRD development focus, TeXtreme, Zipp 404 FC wheels vs. Dura-Ace C35s, 3T LTD cockpit, and other upgrades.

Bikes like the 2013 AR4 and 2014 AR4 are more similar (despite the Ultegra 11 speed upgrade costs) because the costs to manufacture those two models remain similar.

-SD

[53x12]

I think most here, myself included, are most interested in the frameset and price of said frameset. We already have our high end wheels and compnenets on our other bikes.

[Sykes]

Dave thank you so much for all of your help, but 53x12 has hit the nail on the head. I/we am/are really looking at framesets. For me the cost-benefit of the F1 vs FC frameset is hard to justify, but if the F-FRD fameset is about the same price as the current F1 frameset, I think I could benefit from waiting and getting the FRD version.


FYI that setup for a complete bike sounds fantastic, with 404s and 3T LTD gear.

[spud]

Dave,

is the geometry of the new AR series the same as the old series? Personally, I hope you guys adopted the F series geo for the AR.

[tranzformer]

I have a feeling those wanting the latest and greatest AR FRD are going to be in for a surprise for the price of it. 2013 AR1 frameset was $3,099 and the AR was $2,069. If they keep the 3 lines of frame for 2014 (FRD, UHC-Ultimate + Nano, UHC-Advanced) I can see Felt pricing the FRD at something like $4,500-5,000 (think S5 VWD territory), UHC-Ultimate + Nano at something like $3,500 and if they bring a UHC-Advanced version something like $2,500. I think Felt is going on the high side on this one boys. When you read about TeXtreme, special resins, special carbon layups, special manufacturing process...etc. just get ready to shell out the bucks at that point.

[Sykes]

Transformer,

They are doing away with the F1, so there will be no Nano version in the F series line. Not sure what the AR1 will be made out of, but my guess is that it will get a downgrade to UHC advanced.

Also we can look at the Nine series as a reference for FRD pricing and that was not a huge jump, it is about double the UHC Advanced model.