Felt 2014 AR1

[nameless]

Uh...the Giant has a seat mast. For me that's a show stopper. The Felt has a seat post that's reversible. Yes, you can shim a seat mast, but you can't reconfigure the bike for a TT or sell it to someone with a different inseam

Propel Advanced SL has a seat mast. Propel Advanced has a normal seat post.

[Mize]

My bad.
Have to confess I never rode the regular Advanced. My perception of the SL (wrong size but ridden) was that it wasn't as stiff as the AR1. Coming from a Tarmac, stiffness was super important to me and the AR1 rides with the same or less flex than my Tarmac. Can't honestly say how the non-SL does, but the SL seemed more flexy.

[nameless]

What handicap does an exposed front brake give you?

Let me ask you something, what is more aerodynamic (less drag) a cinder block or a aero road bicycle?

Think about it.

-SD

As per the comment on the previous page, exposed front brake handicap is ~30 g.

The chart on page 59 comes from here http://www.aeroweenie.com/assets/backup ... elt-AR.pdf. Upon closer look, it's Felt AR FRD (no mechanical cable ports visible on the downtube) vs Propel Advanced SL (seat mast). Not directly related to my question, but I'm very curious where the 120-150 g difference between FRD and Advanced SL at high yaw (180 g before handicap) comes from. 180 g is whopping 20% of total FRD drag at that yaw angle. They don't look all that different.

[g32ecs]

Some initial impressions:

1. Godamnit I can't wait til tomorrow to ride it.

2. My *ahem* size 48 weighed in at 17lbs on the dot without pedals fully stock. I did expect less but I already replaced the saddle and the stem. I hope to get it down to 16-15.5lbs when I'm done replacing what needs to be replaced.

3. I'm already not liking the seatpost "clamp" for the saddle. It'll take a while to get it leveled. I guess I just have to think I only need to do this once anyway (when it's fully dialed in)

4. I LOVE the stock Gel tape. I like my tape cushy and thick. I just don't know how it'll perform in wet conditions looking at the finish.

I'll probably take a pic when I get my Reynolds Assaults in 2 weeks or so.

[ultyguy]

Ok SD and aero weenies, I get to use this bad boy in the Haute Route prolouge on Saturday. 9km pan flat, road bikes only.

Question is, is it more aero with bottles or without, or just with one? In which holder? Only have normal bottles, 500 or 750.

[weightLight]

Read/scanned through most of the thread, and I am confused.

With all due respect to Superdave & others, please explain to me one thing. In what way is AR1 superior to Giant Propel?

Propel has integrated front brake and cadence sensor. AR1 does not.

AR1 was supposed to be super-light compared to porky Propel. Now we have weight figures coming in and it appears that there's maybe 50 g savings in the frame (1150..1170 g reported for AR1, vs 1200 g for Propel) and another 50 g in the fork.

Aero situation is not clear. Granted that AR1 is pretty good, but I couldn't find any third-party data comparing AR1 vs Propel Advanced. There is a chart about 10 pages back where Felt comes up on top (~100 g of drag savings at 15 deg yaw) but it does not even say whether it's comparing AR1 vs Advanced, AR FRD vs Advanced SL, or some other combination. Further, it's unclear to me how Felt could achieve this much savings while handicapped by the exposed front brake.

Propel has MSRP $2300 and is easily available (I'd expect to pay less than MSRP). AR1 has MSRP $2500 and is hard to find.

Haha, you ask that in the AR forum? like really? Hey the propel is a nice bike but I bought an ar frd, purely because it looks better to my eye.

I am no world beater, seriously doubt you are too, both bikes are awesome, both would have positives over the other and negatives.

[DuncanS]

Summarising the question: So besides being more aerodynamic, lighter, more compliant, stiffer, more adjustable/configurable and better bar tape, what's better?

[nigel379]

Only SuperDave can answer with certainty, but I am pretty confident that the frame is fastest without any bottles or cages. My teammate rode it last year and has many a tale about how difficult it is. Good luck!

[53x12]

Yeah Dave will have to answer from certainty but I also remember him saying it is fastest without a water bottle or cage, but if you are going to run a water bottle get a Arundel Chrono (or something similar).


@nigel, what do you mean by your teammate rode the AR last year and has many a tale about how difficult it is? What is difficult?

[tranzformer]

SuperDave, has Felt figured out how to get more framesets made for 2015? I have been calling around to a few dealers and they say there are 0 AR framesets available. One shop told me they didn't see a 2014 AR in person at all as their order with Felt was never fulfilled last year. Hopefully all the kinks have been worked out this year? I am really considering getting one, but if it is going to be a fight and struggle to purchase one, it might not be worth the hassle of waiting 6-8 months if my order is fulfilled at all?

[gte534j]

certain builds of the AR are in stock now and the majority of the builds will be in stock late Sept/Oct. Your local dealer should be able to login and see the ETA/inventory.

[tranzformer]

gte, Yes I realize that the AR3 and AR5 are in stock now. My dealer has a few on the floor. My question was specifically about the frame sets (AR1 and AR FRD). My shop has zero information about inventory and availability. They say they have no idea when frame sets will be available or if they even will be available this year.

[BeeSeeBee]

Yeah Dave will have to answer from certainty but I also remember him saying it is fastest without a water bottle or cage, but if you are going to run a water bottle get a Arundel Chrono (or something similar).

This is what I think is ridiculous, run without bottles, or an aero bottle? This is a road bike, it's role is that of a of a pretty versatile all-around bike (at least dramatically more so than a TT/Tri bike). I think it should be expected that these aero road frames should be tested with two standard bottles (because that's what 99.9% of people are going to use on the bike), otherwise it seems like a pretty flawed test and I'd be very suspect of any company using such selective testing procedures while also attempting to portray their data as applicable to the real world.

So how does the AR, without any bottle shielding features stack up to frames with bottles accounted for in their design when bottles are added, and why was the test not conducted this way?

[Mize]

Agreed it's good to test with bottles. That said, there's no need to carry a bottle for a 9 km TT so if it's more aero without....hence a good reason to ask.

[53x12]

@ SuperDave, just a few questions about the 2015 AR model.

1) A bikeradar article stated:

"New for 2015 is a less aggressive 5mm offset size to accompany the standard 25mm option; both can also be flipped forward for riders seeking an especially forward position."

http://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/news/a ... 015-41831/


Does this mean AR bikes are going to be coming with both a 5mm offset and a 25mm offset seat post?


2) What does the 2015 AR1 and AR2 frame look like now with the TexTreme carbon? That same Bikeradar article had this picture, would it look similar to this?



I assume the AR FRD will keep the TexTreme checkered appearance throughout the exterior of the frame vs. the AR1 and AR2 having it only over some sections of the exterior?