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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:13 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:51 pm
Posts: 78
53x12 wrote:
"As for a Chinese frame, of questionable safety, well...could be under rated for the danger they pose."

Do you have experience with said frame? Love how the bias continues yet the "name" brand frame made right next to it you are willing to say is safer and well worth +4x the cost.

Continue.

2 snapped forks, 2 unbonded rear drop outs and some shocking excess carbon layup around headset recesses.

Enough for me to stay clear.


Charles and many others have explained how they differ to the 'name brand' frames that come out of a factory. Your call if you ride one. Me, I don't trust them. But that's just me.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:44 am
Posts: 1676
Location: Canada
Funny thread, I mean how people "rate" frames differently...

Definition of "rated" :noidea: ???

I'd say any local brand that's un-known to the "outside" world can be under-rated...
I see lots of un-known bikes in 2nd cat. UCI races, but I'm shure a lot of really fine frames are sponsoring some of the local and national teams.
I know my frame (Norco) is shure under-rated here in eastern Canada. Very few people here impressed by them. A brand mostly associated here with Mountain biking and low-end bikes...


Louis :)


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Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:04 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:18 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:51 pm
Posts: 285
+ 1 on the Litespeed L1r, great frame using a bb386 BB and 1.5 steerer system, makes for a stiff frame that accelerates quickly, got mine for 1400.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:24 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:46 pm
Posts: 9
Location: denver, co
another vote for the fuji altamira sl. if you can get the frame on a team deal it's a pretty sweet deal $/g-wise. my s/m was 920g with the hanger, clamp and twist ties on it, so it's probably about 880g by itself. sweet paint job as well, rides great!


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:39 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:37 am
Posts: 73
SLCBrandon,

Just a few questions..

Are you certain that the exact same people/crew/technicians who make the knockoffs are the exact same persons who make the giant/colnago/pinarello/cervelo OEM's, etc on the exact same assembly lines using exactly the same ovens/layups/fibers/bladders/techniques?

Do you know for certain that the "generic" brands undergo the same QC/supervision/oversight/liability that an OEM requires?

Do you know for certain that what you're riding has the same stiffness/failure modes/safety margins built in that OEM's require of their frames?

No one can dispute your claims as to how you've ridden your bike unless they happened to be in your shorts at the time. I'm just slightly curious as to how you claim to know that:

[/quote]
They are made in the same factory as the biggest names in the sport. Same people making them, same ovens etc etc.
[/quote]

Emphasis on your "etc etc"

I'm not flaming you nor your experiences. Your post is a bit snarky starting off towards those who are not keen on the knockoffs, so I'm just curious as to any factual information you might have on the quality or lack of regarding the generic frames.

On topic, my vote goes for the altamira as well as the Kuota KOM with a nod especially for the Orbea orca.
Look 595 is up on the list for me, though not so inexpensive necessarily.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:09 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:37 am
Posts: 133
Location: Perth W.A
Kuota KOM :thumbup:

_________________
2012 KUOTA KOM Team Edition Campag SR11 .....My mistress
2012 RIDLEY HELIUM being built up ....


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 Post subject: Underrated Carbon frame?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:17 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:50 pm
Posts: 20
Location: USA
I can highly recommend Franco Bikes, located right here in Southern California. I have been riding and racing the Balcom S for the last 2 years and its one of the best I have ridden. Stiff but comfortable and compliant. Franco is a small band that does its own R&D and owns its own molds, no open design. Really good customer service. Great frame for the money.

Scott


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:10 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:44 am
Posts: 1676
Location: Canada
I maintain my previous post.

In eastern Canada, we saw many, many Kuota KOM's with major defects, cracked frames at the BB, split BB junctions, etc...

The former Canadian distributor even dissapeared.

So, for us up here, Kuota, especially the KOM, is very over rated...

Louis :)


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 Post subject: Underrated Carbon frame?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:47 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 09, 2009 3:03 am
Posts: 211
Location: Maryland
We've seen quite a bit of Fuji love here, and for good reason! Another thumbs up for the Altamira from a very happy pedaler.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:50 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:52 am
Posts: 134
aermet wrote:
SLCBrandon,

Just a few questions..

Are you certain that the exact same people/crew/technicians who make the knockoffs are the exact same persons who make the giant/colnago/pinarello/cervelo OEM's, etc on the exact same assembly lines using exactly the same ovens/layups/fibers/bladders/techniques?

Do you know for certain that the "generic" brands undergo the same QC/supervision/oversight/liability that an OEM requires?

Do you know for certain that what you're riding has the same stiffness/failure modes/safety margins built in that OEM's require of their frames?

No one can dispute your claims as to how you've ridden your bike unless they happened to be in your shorts at the time. I'm just slightly curious as to how you claim to know that:


They are made in the same factory as the biggest names in the sport. Same people making them, same ovens etc etc.
[/quote]

Emphasis on your "etc etc"

I'm not flaming you nor your experiences. Your post is a bit snarky starting off towards those who are not keen on the knockoffs, so I'm just curious as to any factual information you might have on the quality or lack of regarding the generic frames.

On topic, my vote goes for the altamira as well as the Kuota KOM with a nod especially for the Orbea orca.
Look 595 is up on the list for me, though not so inexpensive necessarily.[/quote]


I'll keep this short as I don't have time to find the necessary links.

First and foremost, I NEVER......EVER mentioned knockoffs. Not once. That's an apples and dinosaurs comparison to an open mold frame. Knockoffs are just that. Open molds can actually be found with name brand paint on them and called something else.

Now, simple googling will yield many articles about companies like Merida etc that manufacture big name brands right next to open mold frames that are often times re-branded by lower level brands. Sometimes many times over.

There are very few factories over all in Tiawan and China that can produce these. It just so happens they produce for almost everyone.

Related note: the ONLY defective issue I've ever experienced with carbon cycling parts is actually with an ENVE 45 wheel that had a bladder issue causing a fracture in the brake track. Found that out at 50mph on a 12% descent. Those are made right here in Utah, btw.

It took me awhile to realize this as a reformed gear junky, but you're paying hundreds of percent markup most of the time, just for a paint job that makes you feel good because it has a brand name attached to it.

What about the warranty you ask? Both ENVE and Zipp (hub issue on a 3 month old 404 firecrest) have said "nah" to obvious warranty issues.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:41 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:49 am
Posts: 780
Location: Mallorca, Spain
But there is a higher level of issue with open mold frames shared with any "no-name" product, namely lack of accountability which would otherwise be integral to a companies investment in their brand equity. Obviously how important that is depends on the product - could care less about own label coca cola vs Coke, (and I own two hotels with a value proposition being much about NOT being a corporate, branded, hotel) but, in an extremely silly example, how many of us would fly on an "unbranded" spaceship. Of course cycling is somewhere between those extremes, but whereas Im PRETTY sure the FM-066SL has the same QC as, for example, a Cervelo, and internet forums such as this one do help to weed out the dross, but how much are you willing to bet? It all comes back to the "a product so good its got my name on it"

As for under-rated brands, my Boardman outside of the UK. :)


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:38 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:51 pm
Posts: 78
SLCBrandon wrote:
Now, simple googling will yield many articles about companies like Merida etc that manufacture big name brands right next to open mold frames that are often times re-branded by lower level brands. Sometimes many times over.

There are very few factories over all in Tiawan and China that can produce these. It just so happens they produce for almost everyone.


SLCBrandon wrote:
I'll keep this short as I don't have time to find the necessary links.

?

But time to give ENVE and Zipp a slap?

Not saying there's not defects with those brands too (I've seen them too). But you seem to have been blessed by never seeing any defects from the knock offs (which is what they are).


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:07 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:52 am
Posts: 134
MarkTwain wrote:
SLCBrandon wrote:
Now, simple googling will yield many articles about companies like Merida etc that manufacture big name brands right next to open mold frames that are often times re-branded by lower level brands. Sometimes many times over.

There are very few factories over all in Tiawan and China that can produce these. It just so happens they produce for almost everyone.


SLCBrandon wrote:
I'll keep this short as I don't have time to find the necessary links.

?

But time to give ENVE and Zipp a slap?

Not saying there's not defects with those brands too (I've seen them too). But you seem to have been blessed by never seeing any defects from the knock offs (which is what they are).


Any carbon frame that isn't "branded" is a knock off? Hmm, that's news.


I'd better step away from this topic now. I'll leave you with this: keep buying $4k paint jobs and I'll buy my death trap......there, we are both happy.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:39 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:43 am
Posts: 31
Location: San Diego
Does anyone have any experience with the new FM069 road frame from Hong Fu? I was wondering if it was an updated version of the FM066SL that I've read a lot of praise about.


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Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:39 am 


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:35 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:02 am
Posts: 2208
Location: On the bike
"Does anyone have any experience with the new FM069 road frame from Hong Fu? I was wondering if it was an updated version of the FM066SL that I've read a lot of praise about."


FM069 is the TT bike if I'm not mistaken.

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