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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:47 am 
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Location: Vladivostok
Yeah that's right...the FM069 is the TT frame, the 066SL is the roadie.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:32 am 
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Location: San Diego
While I've seen the FM069 TT frame listed, this is the frame that I am referencing.

http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/html_produc ... e-292.html


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Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:32 am 


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:47 am 
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Since several people have mentioned the Fuji Altamira as an underrated frame, I just wanted to point out that it comes up every once in a while on chainlove.com. The last time it was on there, about 5 hours ago, they had a decent stock of sizes available (44cm, 47cm, 50cm, 53cm, 55cm, 58cm) for only $850 (that's a 76% discount off the $3,549 retail price).

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:13 am 
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Posts: 73
SLCBrandon wrote:
aermet wrote:


SLCBrandon,
I'll keep this short as I don't have time to find the necessary links.

First and foremost, I NEVER......EVER mentioned knockoffs. Not once. That's an apples and dinosaurs comparison to an open mold frame. Knockoffs are just that. Open molds can actually be found with name brand paint on them and called something else.

Now, simple googling will yield many articles about companies like Merida etc that manufacture big name brands right next to open mold frames that are often times re-branded by lower level brands. Sometimes many times over.

There are very few factories over all in Tiawan and China that can produce these. It just so happens they produce for almost everyone.

Related note: the ONLY defective issue I've ever experienced with carbon cycling parts is actually with an ENVE 45 wheel that had a bladder issue causing a fracture in the brake track. Found that out at 50mph on a 12% descent. Those are made right here in Utah, btw.

It took me awhile to realize this as a reformed gear junky, but you're paying hundreds of percent markup most of the time, just for a paint job that makes you feel good because it has a brand name attached to it.

What about the warranty you ask? Both ENVE and Zipp (hub issue on a 3 month old 404 firecrest) have said "nah" to obvious warranty issues.


No one thus far, specifically relating to your original points, has debated whether some factories make several different brands' bikes, since most who know the industry know that to be a fact. But in your mind, how many factories is a few? 2? 5? 20?

You have yet to address my previous questions. Are you SURE, that EVERYTHING that comes out of your open molds are technically equal, or even really safe, when compared to the overpriced name brand bikes to which your refer?

I think you might be surprised that there are many more small shops than you can imagine, with the ideas and ambition to obtain molds and get into the bike making business. Some might be safe, but my wager is that's highly unlikely based on the ones I've seen and my knowledge of the level of expertise many of these shops have.

By the way, your very definition of frames which are open mold, yet are also sold as name brand frames, is exactly what a knockoff is.

Once you have a "company", with a distribution, office, and the other things that go along with that, it then becomes a different entity with a different business structure and it's inherent responsibilities, i.e insurance, proper testing and subsequent assurances of a "reasonably" safe structure for a frame or fork.

I could build a bike out of balsa wood, to such a state that it would go down a hill at your 50 mph, and not have any failures or handling issues. Throw that unexpected bump, rock, obstacle, or "stress" into the equation (or hundreds of thousands of cycles of minor impact or twisting force), and my balsa bike could explode and leave me on my face.

I am all for saving money, as I'm sure most here are. I would absolutely love to be able to buy a frameset for $500 or $700, or whatever comparatively low price and still be reasonably sure that it was equally as safe/stiff/comfortable/light as a big name brand frame.

I'll make it easy for you...
Unless you have been to every one of the open mold shops, even to the shop which made your FM066, and know enough about fibers/layup/mfr processes and have seen their testing protocols, then you really DON'T know just how safe your or any other open mold really is.

You only know that it hasn't failed on you yet.

You insulting others who buy "$4000 paint jobs", slamming Zipp for not covering an "obvious" warranty issue with a hub, isn't addressing the specific questions I posed to you. (except that you ride one, beat the sh t out of it, and it's so)

"Haha, this is STILL the ruling train of thought to the average cyclist? Christ...."
Maybe starting your post like that might have been a bit inflammatory?

Apologies to the OP, no more derailing this thread for me.

Back on topic, the diamondback you refer to looks like a very nice bike and has some nice design cues. Make sure you will be able to get adequate saddle/bar drop as the DB has a longish head tube length to frame size number, plus add the headset cap, 20mm.

My top nod for underpriced, uncommon, but pro tour, is the latest canyon ultimate CF slx. It's up to 50% less expensive than some comparable or arguably inferior name brands new, and in my opinion, an incredible deal now as a new bike. Looks as if it would only be about $500 more for the frameset than the DB. The dollar/gram (since this is WW, roughly 250g frame/fork difference on a given size?) result comparing to the DB could justify the price difference for you....maybe?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:33 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:52 am
Posts: 138
You win.


Last edited by Powerful Pete on Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Deleted quote. Not necessary if responding to immediately preceding post. PP


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:31 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:30 pm
Posts: 295
Ridley Fenix. Lotto races it in Roubiax, the exact same model available in the market. Complete bike with Ultegra, decent wheels and Rotor crank for less than 2500 bucks.

It comes with tapered headtube, PF30 BB, beefy chain stay and decently weighted for its price.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:49 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Posts: 1642
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
aermet wrote:
Unless you have been to every one of the open mold shops, even to the shop which made your FM066, and know enough about fibers/layup/mfr processes and have seen their testing protocols, then you really DON'T know just how safe your or any other open mold really is.


The same is true of all frames and components. Not just open mold. Unless you are a CF expert and x-ray the frame you don't know if it's been put together right. You are trusting the manufacturer. Painting a name on it does not change that. Hong-fu and FarSports have reputations to uphold just like any other business.

There are videos of the FM066 being tested in a lab, and a certificate of some sort (I am not an expert on those and don't know what it means). But that is more than I have seen from any name brand manufacturer, although Cervelo writes about testing and I seen writing that indicate the other majors do testing, as one would expect.

As for your implication that a "real" business can't disappear, you're wrong. Especially in this age of outsourced manufacturing. There's no factory to sell. They just declare bankruptcy, fire the employees and state that they are no longer honoring their warranties. If they have any stock left it's blown out on chainlove. I had an Airborne frame when Airborne did exactly that (minus the chainlove part). Fortunately I'd already gotten my warranty replacement for the frame that broke. Even large bike makers are small fry in the corporate world and can be disappeared easily.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:05 am 
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^ Great point. Serotta is a current case in point. No bike maker is too big to fail (well maybe Shimano?).


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:49 am 
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OK guys, let's stop the derailing bits. Want to talk about the pros and cons of open mold vs. name-brand? Start another thread. Thanks.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:34 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:37 am
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ichobi wrote:
Ridley Fenix. Lotto races it in Roubiax, the exact same model available in the market. Complete bike with Ultegra, decent wheels and Rotor crank for less than 2500 bucks.

It comes with tapered headtube, PF30 BB, beefy chain stay and decently weighted for its price.


Yes! Di2/cabled compatibility in the same frame, too.

They even sell the frameset on its own at a decent price ($1800 not even on sale). The only downside is that the paintjob is a bit boring.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:57 pm 
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nickl wrote:
ichobi wrote:
Ridley Fenix. Lotto races it in Roubiax, the exact same model available in the market. Complete bike with Ultegra, decent wheels and Rotor crank for less than 2500 bucks.

It comes with tapered headtube, PF30 BB, beefy chain stay and decently weighted for its price.


Yes! Di2/cabled compatibility in the same frame, too.

They even sell the frameset on its own at a decent price ($1800 not even on sale). The only downside is that the paintjob is a bit boring.


Wait till you see the 2014 paintjob!

Image

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:37 pm 
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Location: Mountain View, California
Ooooo

The last Ridley (bright red one) looks nice

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:45 am 
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Location: Canada
They sell for $1895. complete bike with 105 group at my LBS.

Nice frame!

Louis :)


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