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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:16 am 
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tharmor wrote:
Shocking and disappointing ::

"Unlike Lightweight’s wheels that are all made in Germany – and they’ll continue to be made in Germany in the future – the Urgestalt is made in the Far East to keep the price down. It’s still far from cheap (see below) but it’s a whole lot less than it would be if the production was done in Germany. Plus, there’s a whole lot of expertise in carbon-fibre frame production in Asia. Lightweight are keen to point out, though, that they’re not simply sourcing a frame mould and slapping their name on the down tube. Far from it..."

Cervélo makes the RCA in California. Where is the Evo Nano from Cannondale made? And what is the weight of that new Storck frame?



Was just looking up this bike and found this thread. The reason this bike was made in the Far East other than Germany is probably due to LightWeight not having sufficient infrastructure and expertise in building a whole bike. Gearing up for that at this point probably killed the ROI of the project.

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Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:16 am 


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:54 pm 
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Posts: 170
I do wonder how they can't build it in Germany given

A) They charge 7-8,000+ for Obermeyers and people pay it. Is a 10K frame really a dealbreaker to *that* customer?

B) Unlike most (virtually all) debut framebuilders, they have a *ton* of carbon fabrication experience/infrastructure to start

C) There are at least two companies next door in France building carbon frames, so it can be done profitably in the EU.

D) For everyone who says it "doesn't matter where they build it," there's 20+ years of prior Carbonsports/LW advertising that
claimed otherwise. It seemed to matter a great deal until it didn't. Were they shooting the bull then or now? Pick one.

E) It's easier to argue that LW wheels are excessive but unique on the consumer market, so paying for the novelty is
understandable if you have the funds. I wouldn't do it, but it's a valid reason since carbon co-mold wheels remain rare, and
the wheels are a legitimate piece of cycling history at this point. It's not clear that this frame is as singular as the wheel,
and there are *many* nice comfort-oriented frames today, many of which are race-worthy in their own right.

I can't get past the feeling that this is a cynical marketing exercise to sell what amounts to an accessory for LW's wheels. Until somebody outside of the cycling press tests this and concludes "oh year, this is clearly differentiated from and superior to the [Synapse Hi-Mod/S-Works Roubaix/Gran-Fondo/Infinito CV/Domane/Dogma K/etc.]," shoppers should be skeptical. Since this is unlikely to be a first road bike for anyone, I'd imagine riders who consider it would be shopping the above alternatives and probably own one or more very competent bikes already.

I'd think the new Domane pro-geometry or S-Works Roubaix *with* LW wheels would be a more compelling combo. Has anyone cross-compared these models?

-Tim


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:45 pm 
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Never liked overpriced framesets from Taiwan or China. They should have had it made in France if they couldn't build it.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:12 am 
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Location: Brisbane, Oz
A guy in my club bought one of these, because "there are only 2 in Australia". It looks very similar to my 2014 BH Ultralight, although the top tube is a little less sloping on the Lightweight.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:29 am 
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petal666 wrote:
A guy in my club bought one of these, because "there are only 2 in Australia". It looks very similar to my 2014 BH Ultralight, although the top tube is a little less sloping on the Lightweight.


There's more than 2 in Australia. I saw 3 in my local (Adelaide) shop during TDU week. One was in the process of being sold. I believe the shop is the Australian Lightweight agent though.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:34 am 
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I know that, it's amazing what people will believe.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:56 am 
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Location: Geneva, Switzerland
SpinnerTim wrote:
I do wonder how they can't build it in Germany given
C) There are at least two companies next door in France building carbon frames, so it can be done profitably in the EU.


Out of interest, which companies are you thinking of ?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:14 am 
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in the industry
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AX Lightness say they can do it, so Lightweight can.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:54 am 
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There are some companies in Italy that built carbon frames as well.
We also have Berk's example at the end.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:51 pm 
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indigo wrote:
SpinnerTim wrote:
I do wonder how they can't build it in Germany given
C) There are at least two companies next door in France building carbon frames, so it can be done profitably in the EU.


Out of interest, which companies are you thinking of ?


I'm guessing 'Time' is one of them. The other may be 'Look', not sure.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:25 pm 
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Location: Geneva, Switzerland
addicted wrote:
indigo wrote:
SpinnerTim wrote:
I do wonder how they can't build it in Germany given
C) There are at least two companies next door in France building carbon frames, so it can be done profitably in the EU.


Out of interest, which companies are you thinking of ?


I'm guessing 'Time' is one of them. The other may be 'Look', not sure.


Thought they had been made in North Africa for quite a while now.

No idea about Cyfac.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:27 pm 
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"TIME is a company that designs and produces all of its products in France"

http://www.time-sport.com/time-france/m ... spx?me=126


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:42 pm 
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Indeed, Time and Cyfac are the French companies I referenced.

Corima doesn't do much frame work anymore, but given the scope of their carbon fabrication facilities in France, you could call them a third example.

-Tim


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:01 pm 
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SpinnerTim wrote:

D) For everyone who says it "doesn't matter where they build it," there's 20+ years of prior Carbonsports/LW advertising that
claimed otherwise. It seemed to matter a great deal until it didn't. Were they shooting the bull then or now? Pick one.
-Tim

:goodpost:

That is one of my "pet-peeves". Everyone makes a big deal about "their frames/parts being made in the U.S. or France or Italia or Germany, etc...

.........until they don't...then it's all, "Asia is the best at doing carbon etc..."
(which they may be, but it's hypocritical, ya know)

The same will be said about aero dynamics & disc brakes (braking performance aside)... they make frames with forks that have integrated brakes and brakes under BB's...and they say how aero it is.

..............then they put out a disc brake bike...and you know they will eventually will call it an "aero frame set" and say how aero it is (probably against other disc bikes, but making it sound like all bikes) and people will EAT-IT-UP and believe it.

...you know that will happen (if it hasn't already) :D

P.S. I still find it interesting that Time makes their carbon, molds their tubes and makes their frames (in France)...and they are GREAT FRAMES and they sell for approx.. $1300 less.

And Carbonsports says they outsource to Asia to "keep price down". :roll: :roll: :?: :roll:

I've bought expensive frames (more that this one, in fact), but what annoys me is the bogus marketing.
...just say it's expensive therefore exclusive. We're not idiots, don't treat us that way. :D :roll:


Last edited by carbon2329 on Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:47 am 
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That's where the clever boys in marketing earn their money :)

If it's a 7k frame in Italy it's made my master artisans with cycling in their blood.
If it's made in Taiwan it's cos it's the epicentre of composite design.
If the brakes are integrated (and a pr@ck to adjust) it's cos it's the essence of aero design.
If it's disc brakes it's cos it's so much more direct.

They've got to have a spiel for every scenario and it's passed on down from R&D to the guy in the bike shop!

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Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:47 am 


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