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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:42 pm 
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FIJIGabe wrote:
TrekUk wrote:
I have used the 6800 and I personally run the 9000, Yes the 6800 groupset is very good performance per pound, but after running 9000 for the life of me cannot ever see myself being able to live with anything less than 9000, aesthetics aside, the ergonomics and performance differences are certainly noticeable.


Where have you been able to ride 6800? They aren't RTM yet in any form that i've seen.


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Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:42 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:02 pm 
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My 1997 DA 7700 shifters still shift like new. 16 years and 60,000+ miles they have never failed me. The left Ultegra shifter on my newly purchased tandem failed after only three months of use.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:04 pm 
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I have two ~12 year old bikes that I have ridden a lot. On has 9 speed DA and the other has 9 speed Ultegra. The DA has held up much better. They both work well but the differences seem to manifest more as time goes on. The DA has retained most of its characteristic smooth shifting while the Ultegra feels reluctant and haphazard in contrast. When new they were both smooth and the margin was narrow.

Will the modern sets age similarly? Hard to tell, but I recently built up a new bike with 9070 and upgraded my wife's bike with 9000 on the premise that I do a lot of riding and my hunch is that it is more cost effective for a ~10,000 km/year rider to run DA on a bike. I do however replace cassettes and chains with Ultegra. DA cassettes are insane expensive.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:05 pm 
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how about dem grams? let's quantify.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:31 am 
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9000 is significantly smoother compared to 6800. They are both amazing groups but the shifting and smoothness of 9000 is far superior. There is a huge difference between the shifting motion and brake modulation between the two. My current race bike has 9000 but I'll probably switch to 6800 next year due to cost.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:34 am 
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FIJIGabe wrote:
TrekUk wrote:
I have used the 6800 and I personally run the 9000, Yes the 6800 groupset is very good performance per pound, but after running 9000 for the life of me cannot ever see myself being able to live with anything less than 9000, aesthetics aside, the ergonomics and performance differences are certainly noticeable.


Where have you been able to ride 6800? They aren't RTM yet in any form that i've seen.



We've already installed a few 6800 groups and I got to a chance to spend a few hours on a 6800 bike at my last Giant demo day.

In a perfect world we would all ride Dura Ace but Ultegra is a great option. It not fair to say that Dura Ace is only lighter and has a better finish because there is a tangible difference between the two.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:20 am 
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The attached link provides a really good comparison of the two groups. There are differences in the material used (higher grade AL vs. standard AL), manufacturing method (forged vs. cold forged), and anti-friction treatments (fluorine coated pins. vs. no coating).

http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/featur ... egra.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's Shimano's product description of the new RD-9000

Hard wearing Dura-Ace finish and graphics for long lasting good looks.
High tolerance cold forged aluminium link plates and body construction
Four self-lubricating micro-machined fluorine-coated link pivot
Pulleys are made of tough DuPont Zytel


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:41 pm 
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kulivontot wrote:
how about dem grams? let's quantify.



The numbers I have seen place the difference at around ~250-260g if I recall correctly. I can't remember if the weights for the 6800 were claimed weights from Shimano or were actual weights.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:43 pm 
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I just went through this decision and considering what take off and slightly used 9000 groups go for, it makes no sense to go with 6800 IMO. I was coming from Campy Record/SR 11 and the weight was considerably higher than my old group and 9000, the front shifting performance was noted as not being as crisp (and this is very important to me) and this is taking into account that I don't use DA cranks or cassettes. 6800 is really nice, especially for the money, but the marginal differences between 9000 were worth the small upgrade price.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:59 pm 
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Tinea Pedis wrote:
phlip wrote:
I am comtemplating about 6800 versus 9000 too. Tinea Pedis, could you please elaborate on how the 9000 FD is funtionally different or better than the 6800 FD? That would be very helpful, thanks.

It's simply smoother. Which I know is a relative thing. If you're coming from Red (any edition) you'll likely find the Ultegra FD is better than that. That said, the 9000 mech is like there is a little man lifting and moving your chain in either direction.

It's easily apparent where the XTR inspiration for it has come in. Does not matter how ham-fisted your shifting is, I think you would struggle to miss a shift with it.


So, if you are planning on moving to Ultegra 6800, it sounds like the recommendation would be to spend a little extra and use the Dura Ace 9000 Front Derailleur? A quick search and this looks to be an extra $70 ... I'm OK with that.

Scott


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:58 pm 
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I dont see why we are comparing the two groupsets, its like comparing a BMW 3 series to a BMW M3, probably a lame comparison but the two arent even close in shifting performance and feel.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:34 pm 
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I find it hard to believe there's that much of a gulf. Does 6800 have a different cable set to 9000? Has any one been able to compare 6870 to 9070?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:12 pm 
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I think I posted this on page one, but yes DA9000 runs there specific own cables, anything other than these cables apparently loses 10% shifting performance.

I have tried the 11spd 6800 and yes it is very very good, but no its not a patch on DA and nor should it be for the price difference.

If you can afford DA then its a no brainer really, I have never ridden anything quite as good as DA9000.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:09 pm 
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So what would 9000 cables be like on 6800?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:13 pm 
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How do the STI shapes compare between 6800 and 9000, are they identical? Also, how do they compare in size to SRAM (not the latest SRAM shape)


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Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:13 pm 


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