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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:04 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:00 am
Posts: 33
lannes wrote:
Can you increase the tension of the spokes to reduce the play or is the flex in the rims themselves

No, the rim can get damaged.
I think if one cares about how flexy the Zipps are it's better to get them build with 24 spokes, better lacing and better hub.
Or get ENVE that can supposedly have more tension... NOT that I am knowledged enough to say it's better.

But my side to side play is definitely caused within the hub...
I have just ordered new bearings, which are marked as C1 (tight clearance). Maybe it will make some difference, maybe not.
Will keep you posted.

----------
I met a guy with Venge, here's his information:

I watched your video and it seems like there are a bit to much play.
I checked my wheels which i ride on a Venge Pro. My wheels are 2012. Yes, there are some play and a bit of softness. If i push really hard I can make them move fore 3mm to each side. I have ridden the my 404's with the ceramic bearings more than 6000km this summer. If i get out of the saddle at 52-11 and putting all pressure i got (185cm 80kg) i can make them scrape against the brake pads.
My Venge got a lot more room between the chainstays than your sl2. I have had a lot more problem with other wheels. I think the ZIpp wheels are one of the best, because of the easy maintenance and ride quality. The bad side is that they are a bit soft side to side. My original Roval rapid sl45 are much stiffer side to side, but the weight is 1850g. Im probably changing for a Tarmac s-works sl4 next year, just thinking about the choice of wheels. Maybe i should try with the 404's on the frame before buying...

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Last edited by mzz on Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:54 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:00 am
Posts: 33
Martin,
That motion is completely normal and is caused by flex in the axle. All hubs will have some flex in the axle. The main issue is that there is too little clearance between your frame and the rim. You may get slightly better results with a different hub, but the Specalized frame you have is known to be very tight.

Reply by Wheelbuilder.com

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I am Zipp 188 hub specialist :D


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Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:54 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:09 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:00 am
Posts: 33
New bearings arrived!
eBay: 6803-2RS HYBRID CERAMIC Si3N4 ABEC7 BALLBEARING KIT 4 PIECES

2 people replied to me they had no side play on their Zipps after changing to these.

I just replaced the bearings myself.
It seemed very tight to get the axle through, so I had good feeling about it.

Unfortunately the play remained the same.
I took it outside for short ride, but it rubbed the frame immediately after tilting the bike sideways :-(

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Life's too short to smile for reason.
I am Zipp 188 hub specialist :D


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:07 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:00 am
Posts: 33
--- SOLVED ---
I was getting frame rub at the drive side... so I have put 1 Zipp 0.25 shim... didn't help... I put 2 shims... it was rubbing the other side.
I took springs from skewer as I noticed they caused some inbalance.
I have put two ~2mm wide shims at both ends of the hub (not the axle, but on skewer).

Now, by pressing on the rim with my hand the rim still touches both, but I have to push harder :thumbup:

I pushed 1200 watts standing with no rub and 80 km with no problems.

However it still rubs on both sides if I lean the bike more than I normally do...

Anyway, wheels became useable.


Image

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I am Zipp 188 hub specialist :D


Last edited by mzz on Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:17 pm, edited 14 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:07 pm 
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[duplicate]

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:32 am 
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Posts: 33
CONCLUSION:
I met another guy who had Zipp 303 on Tarmac SL2 saying it rubbed the frame too, so the cause is really the width of the frame.
SL3 and SL4 are supposedly wider.

REVIEW:
I did ~4000km on Zipp 404 daily commuting to work.
After 2000km the rear wheel had already several small bubbles on the carbon rim that caused uneven braking and vibrations, which was most likely caused due crossing railways.
You can read posts about destroying the Zipp 404 too, so they are really not very durable. You have to be careful for bumps, potholes etc.
Wheels were out of true and service center was not able to make them 100%, so the brakes had to be very loose in order not to get rub.
Zipps are soft as you can read everywhere else, that people get brake rub under load and I would not recommend them for racing unless you get custom lacing.
Setting the hub preload 1/8 as Zipp recommends is useless since the wheel side to side play is even worse.

Compared to my standard wheels worth $150 the time advantage of these wheels for casual riding was unnoticeable.
They make noise and under windy conditions sketchy handling.

To be fair, the rims itself are great, but I bought the whole wheel.
Btw. 50mm cheap chinese carbon rims were incredibly stiff in comparison, but they made uneven noise (woosh-woosh, zipps made shhhhhh), which means their aerodynamics were not as good, but on the other hand they were 200g lighter and noticeably easier to accelerate.

---
Bought Zipp 404 for $2000, invested ~$300 for repairs.

SOLD for $1000, Zipps never again!

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:49 pm 
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Formerly known as PezTech
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Location: Phoenix Arizona
Lol, Specialized changed the bike and there are no more issues with lots of the wider profile rims now...

It's a shame they were not compatible. The shop should have helped you out on a bad combination spec... Shops here helped people.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:15 am 
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There is no way you could ever get that combination to work. Just look at the lack of clearance... Most wheels with that width will rub the frame. You need to get a wheelset that is less wide for that frame. Or another frame if you want wider rims.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:09 pm
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^Yes...the issue is the manufacturer, Specialized, not Zipp. Specialized has said many times publicly/news article, that they did these frame moulds prior to the wide rim craze, and didn't know/account for the width needed.

Every other manufacturer did though...never heard of anybody but Specialized having this problem. Only the Venge/Tarmac were affected, and they since in the past 12-18 months fixed the moulds to account for the clearance issue.

Can't blame Zipp for Specializes issues.

Personally, I would have sold the frame, got a newer version if you really are that dedicated to Specialized, otherwise plenty of other good frames that have zero issues with the wide rims.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:21 pm 
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Location: Denmark
Zigmeister wrote:
^Yes...the issue is the manufacturer, Specialized, not Zipp. Specialized has said many times publicly/news article, that they did these frame moulds prior to the wide rim craze, and didn't know/account for the width needed.

Every other manufacturer did though...never heard of anybody but Specialized having this problem. Only the Venge/Tarmac were affected, and they since in the past 12-18 months fixed the moulds to account for the clearance issue.

Can't blame Zipp for Specializes issues.

Personally, I would have sold the frame, got a newer version if you really are that dedicated to Specialized, otherwise plenty of other good frames that have zero issues with the wide rims.

Was an issue with pre-2010 Orbea Orcas as well. The chainstays were too narrow to accomodate wider rims. FC 404's would rub during sprints. Reynolds Aero 58 wouldn't even fit.

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I like Spanish bikes and cars. Riding an Orbea Orca and a Seat Ibiza.


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